In this podcast we conclude a 3-part series exploring the life of psychopath Jackson Noble.

In previous episodes we looked at the confidence and benefits of psychopathy, as well as what it’s like to be in a relationship with Jackson.

In this conversation, we explored the downside to have Antisocial Personality Disorder, what it means for a psychopath to feel emotions such as fear and guilt, and whether Jackson would prefer to be another way. His responses might surprise you!

Noble shares his childhood struggles with bullying and a lack of control, which he later overcame by realizing his control over situations. He contrasts his approach with that of serial killers like Bundy and Gacy, emphasizing his preference for long-term control over impulsive actions.

Noble also discusses his fear of being discovered, his lack of guilt, and his strategic approach to relationships. He values internal control and views trust as unnecessary, preferring to vet people.

Check it out here:

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Full transcript (unedited)

Dan Munro 0:00 Welcome back to the brojo online podcast. Today, we’ve got round two with verified psychopath, Jackson noble, last time we talked about the upsides of psychopathy and what we can take from it to learn about being more confident. Today, we’re going to look at the downsides and the dark sides, and there doesn’t seem to be all that many but we’re going to explore some of the suffering that Jackson has had and some of the potential downsides to engaging in psychopathic traits. I must note that we did not have a great technological connection during the school, so some of the video isn’t particularly good and some of the audio is a little bit shaky. So thank you for your tolerance in advance for that, but it picks up a bit later on in the podcast and gets a bit better. So let’s explore Jackson’s mind once again to uncover some of the mysteries of self confidence, not caring what people think, and letting go of self doubt. It’s great to get back in touch with you. RO, and we’ll see what you want to talk about this time I remember last time you wanted to talk a bit about the the dark sides or the downsides, yeah, yeah, yeah, Jackson Noble 1:11 because I feel like that’s something that people were deprived of with the last one, you know, Dan Munro 1:16 yeah, we certainly focused on the positives or the strengths. I think it’s probably their word, but yeah, I ended up being quite inspired by our conversation. I’ve even been designing a whole online course around what I’m calling psychopathic confidence. Well, let’s, let’s jump straight into it, man, let’s talk a little bit as you said. You know, keen to explore the dark sides and the downsides. What kind of things were you thinking of that you want to dive into, Jackson Noble 1:47 just in general, probably the things that you’re wondering about, cool. Dan Munro 1:53 Well, I’ll prompt you with some ideas, and we’ll see where we go with that. Okay, quite a few questions off the top of my head. But I think I’ll start with probably what would for you personally, you don’t have to speak on behalf of, like all people with ASPD or anything, but for you personally, what’s kind of like the greatest long term source of pain or suffering for you that you think directly relates to your personal life, Jackson Noble 2:27 I would think my childhood feeling out of Control having I got bullied in school in my early years, just just, you know, things most males go through with rejection from girls, you know. So, so it was really just a lack of control. And then as I got better at it, I realized that I have all the control, you know what I mean. So I think that’s a big part of it was even like, as far as, like, my childhood, I felt out of control of, like, how it played out. I had no say. It all goes back to control, like, getting getting rejected, you know, in my adolescence with with a girl I like, or I just at home when things were in turmoil, which I won’t get too much into, because I don’t like the victim mentality, you know, but it was definitely rough. But, yeah, I think it’s basically feeling like I had feeling powerless. Dan Munro 3:40 How do you you know that sort of sense, you know that sense of control. You mentioned it a lot on our last conversation, and even Tegan talked about as something she noticed as well. How do you think they’re direct, like, the powerlessness? How do you relate that to your psychopathy? Like, where do they sort of overlap? And jot it there they Jackson Noble 4:05 overlap where I got tired of it, which also overlapped with me realizing that it didn’t have to be that way. And then as I got more aware of, like, my tactics, and like the things I could do and how I could exploit situations. That’s pretty much what changed it, you know. So Dan Munro 4:26 I guess what I was trying to get at is like, Do you believe that the bullying and some of the social struggles you had were directly related to the psychopathy? Jackson Noble 4:38 Um, yeah, for sure, I wouldn’t say so much bullying. It was more okay. Had it been just bullying. It’s like, whatever everyone goes through that, you know, but I think it was more so that was the cherry on top with what I was dealing with at home. I was like, Okay, I can’t wake up and go day tonight without having I can’t, I can’t, you know what I mean, I’m completely I felt like a victim. Yeah. You know that’s, Dan Munro 5:02 yeah. That’s interesting, because I was talking to someone just today actually trying to distinguish a difference between narcissism and psychopathy, or the difference between MPD and ASPD. And there’s a couple of key differences, one being that narcissists are very, sort of fragile when it comes to criticism. But another one, I think, would be what you’re talking about here, that victim mentality. It sounds like you’ve taken a real switch away from that, whereas narcissists sort of tend to refuse it completely. Tell me about that transition, like, when did you sort of pick up on it and realize that you wanted to change that? I Jackson Noble 5:48 think when I ran away from home, I realized, because when I was at home, I had to deal with all the turmoil that was happening my house, you know, and when I ran away, obviously I was doing every criminal activity under the sun, and I had the control, you know, and I realized that, you know, and that’s another thing too. Like I would tell my mom, she’d get all mad, like we were, you know, like banks or drug dealers or whatever we were doing, kidnapping people. All. I just for ransom. We were doing everything, and I realized I told my mom one it was kind of like the movie notorious with Biggie Smalls. I told my mom one day. I was like, I’m good at what I do smack. And she said, You would have been good at anything. And that’s been kind of going through my head lately, like she’s right. I mean, take that and turn it into it like a, I wouldn’t say a good way, but a way that benefits you most and doesn’t affect your position, you know. So Dan Munro 6:50 you just kind of picked up on the idea that you, like was sort of misusing your talent, and you could have, yeah, yeah. Jackson Noble 6:59 We’d call it talent, yeah. I Dan Munro 7:03 mean, that’s what often struck me when I was working with with criminal offenders in my old job. I mean, I’ll, I’ll be straight up. Like 70% of them were just dumb asses, but the others were kind of like, Well, dude, you could have been something. You know what? I mean, like, you could have been amazing. Yeah, it was genius level dudes doing stuff that, like, had Jackson Noble 7:24 Bundy, right, John Wayne Gacy, you know what? I mean, Dan Munro 7:33 that’s a question. I mean, I’ve got to ask this, because I think everybody thinks this one, what’s the difference between you and those dudes? I’m going under the assumption that you do not have a basement full of bodies. What? What do you think is the significant shift that led them down that path versus you going down the path you were going down. Jackson Noble 8:03 I’ll say it like this. I think the difference between me Bundy and Gacy, is that their impulses caused them to take it too far. They didn’t know how to for lack of a better word, control it as to where, like, you know, like, even, like, we’re spend analogy, like a drug dealer, like, Hey, man, we already made enough money. Let’s stop while we’re ahead. You know what? I mean, they, they could not. They had more and more and more and more they would have, they would have, never have stopped as to where any act of violence that I have submitted to is whether it’s not, whether or not it’s good enough, it’s it’s because there is the urge to do more and keep going. And it’s always there. Like in Dexter, they talk about, like the dark passenger, that’s real, you know, but, but, like we said in the last podcast, what’s more important my overall control of my life and my surroundings, or that urge to kill? And I think that for me, you know? I mean, I think for them, it was they felt in control when they were taking victims, but they were actually out of control as Torah, if I were them, I would have kept it at, you know, under under six. And then you know what I mean, spread sporadically, and then, you know, just like, live off that, and just knowing that you could, like I was talking about, this manifested when I was younger, when I would, like, dig holes for my bullies and no one knew about it. It made me feel like I had that edge. And I feel like if Gacy or Bundy would have just killed a few people, they could have went through life knowing you. Uh, like I could, they could have took a girl or a little boy on a date and know that they could do it. And that should be enough, you know. And if it’s not again, it’s just weighing it out. What do you want? More control over your life or a victim? And the the irony is that if you have control over a victim and go to dirt in the 30s, you’re automatically not going to have control, or ultimately not going to have control over your life. You know what I mean? And I chose to have control over my life more, even though those things have been in that’s Dan Munro 10:37 pretty interesting. Man, like I always think of the victim mindset. One of the elements of it is an external locus of control. You think the powers outside of you in your yours, whereas you know, confidence is an internal locus of control, like I’m the one calling the shots in my own life. So it’s interesting, like you say you kind of valued the internal locus of control over whatever kind of satisfaction might have come. Jackson Noble 11:08 Yeah, kind of like the same thing we talked about with the prison thing, yeah? Dan Munro 11:12 Because that’s so that’s what I find really fast. So I you know, you scored really high on that test, and you were already going down the path. One of the things I’ve been looking into psychopathy lately is it’s quite clear that a lot of the research and the tools were almost exclusively based on interactions with prisoners, and so that’s going to be skewed towards the ones who ended up in prison, obviously. And one of the factors they always talk about is impulsivity or impulse control issues. But that might only be relevant to the one to obviously do lengthy prison sentences and get identified as psychopathic through repetitive criminal behavior. It sounds like you went through a switch. So it wasn’t always that you felt this internal locus of control, but so you kind of realized it was there. Jackson Noble 12:14 Yeah, I knew it was there for a pretty young age. It’s nice, like, Do you think I’m like, you wouldn’t have to ask that question, you know. Well, Dan Munro 12:24 I want to, yeah, I want to keep exploring sort of downsides, like I said last time, we explored the strengths and the kind of what people can take away from it, what they could replicate in their own lives for their benefit. What about in terms of sort of negative outcomes for you that you directly attribute to psychopathy, like, what have you noticed, beyond what we’ve already discussed with, sort of getting in trouble with the law in there, but even current day, um, Jackson Noble 12:57 I always am looking over my Shoulder, in a sense, so that so the good moments I have with my family I know, like, for example, when I hear a knocking sound at the door, like a is immediately triggers. It puts fear into me, like I was standing on a cliff at the Grand Canyon, like it’s, like, absolutely terrifying, because I know it could be over. You know what I mean? Somehow, someway, dots got connected that knocked the door. Could mean a lot of things, but it’s just the kids trying to cut the grass one, you know what I mean? So I even tell my kids, don’t knock around the house. Don’t bang toys that sound like knocking, like there’s just not a thing in my house, because I can’t deal with it, you know. But that’s also a direct correlation to like, why I think that like, why that’s such an issue is because of, it’s almost like a it’s almost like symbolism for a ghost from the past at your doorstep, ready to apprehend you. You know, yeah, that’s going to essentially kill and essentially kill you take your life away, you know, the life that you built. Dan Munro 14:07 So is it just the knocking of the door? Is that a general fear for you that something’s going to come and sort of sweep away all the hard work and everything you love? Jackson Noble 14:16 Yeah, just, just like, just like that, uh, Acts, or demons, or whatever you want to call it, from the past, they’re going to creep up and catch up to me, which I’m almost certain they won’t. But you know what I mean, it’s, it’s still there, you know? Because, like when you look in the mirror, you know what you’ve done, you know. And it’s, it’s, you can cover your tracks as much as you want and be as you a vigilant as you want, but you’re always worried about it. You know? Yeah, Dan Munro 14:48 that’s a theme in Dexter as well. He basically, like he just can’t get away from his bad karma and just keep and of course, he’s constantly adding to it. But. I know? Yeah, Jackson Noble 15:00 I tried to not add to it, you know? Dan Munro 15:05 So even though you haven’t been adding to it for a while, you still think the chickens will come home to roost sort of thing at some point. Jackson Noble 15:12 Yeah, well, philosophy, I always say that, yep, yeah, I don’t think they will. But you know what I mean, it’s like, you don’t think the world’s going to end, but it could, you know, and if it does the last thing you want, you know? I Dan Munro 15:29 know. Man, it sounds like a pretty normal human fear. You know what I mean, I don’t know if anyone friends, yeah, Jackson Noble 15:34 but, but the but the fear, the normal human fear of like, that world ending. That’s not something they cause, or an act that they did that they wake up having, like, cold sweats and nightmares too. You know what I mean, the world ending isn’t a civilian’s fault. You know, my demons or chickens coming home the roots is directly it’s from Acts that I you know, I’m trying to talk cryptically, but you know what Dan Munro 16:06 I mean? No, no, you know, no need to incriminate yourself or anything. But no, I get what you’re saying. So you’ve actually got quite legit reasons to believe that. Yeah, they’re not going Jackson Noble 16:16 long time ago, you know, like, uh, for example, I’m sober from sprite for at least since, since before, I’d say like 2017 2016 so, you know, over 10 years. So, Dan Munro 16:43 so even though that much time has passed, it’s still every knock on the doors, like instant panic sort of thing, Jackson Noble 16:51 yeah, or, like a cop gets behind me. It’s just constant, like spreadsheet right next to me. It’s just, it’s ruthless dude. It’s like a whole, it’s all, it’s the most, it’s, it’s really one of the, it’s actually the most fear I can feel. Yeah, it’s like, a visceral reaction. It’s like, because it’s, it’s like, now being sober and controlling. Have you seen Dexter? Yep. Did you see the last season? Yeah? Yeah. So, I’m in the new blood state, you know, right? Yes. So, so, so, so, so, it’s like, you built a nice light, you got your sun, everything’s cool, everything’s fine. And then it’s like, Oh, my God, come on, I’m a good guy. Now, you know what I mean. But it’s like, that’s, that’s my fear that gets stripped away from me for something that, like I have changed, you know, and I’ve had reasons for everything I’ve done too, yeah, Dan Munro 17:46 that is probably pretty unique to that lifestyle. Yeah, it is. And that’s, yeah, that’s, that’s interesting, how you resonate with Dexter in that way. Because I was surprised. You Jackson Noble 17:57 know, what’s funny, I never seen Dexter until really recently. Because I was doing those tarp shoots, you know. And everyone’s like, he’s trying to be like, Dexter. And I was like, I mean, I see my parents seen it like, a few times when I was younger. I walked by the screen, you know. But I hadn’t actually watched it, but everyone was commenting it, so I watched it, and I was like, there’s a lot of correlations, like, like, that dark passenger thing, the the way he vets people, the way he only goes after bad people, code, the code my mom gave me, like a very strict set of rules. You don’t hurt women or children, no matter what you know. And then down to my son having to see a psychologist now, and he might just be going through some in school. It’s not no big deal. But like, I wonder, you know, like, I don’t know there are some time, yeah, yeah, I don’t know. I don’t want to. I don’t want to get into Georgia too much, because I want, if he gets older, I don’t want him to get mad at me first. If he wants to hide it, he can hide it, and it’s not for sure if he has what I have, but I want that to be his choice. If he hides it or comes out like I did, I don’t want to rob him of that car, but it’s like the Harrison thing. You know? It’s like very there’s a lot of parallels there. Dan Munro 19:11 Yeah, yeah. You know what? We don’t need to talk about your boy, but I would love to talk about your reaction to the news. Jackson Noble 19:20 Yeah, my reaction to the news was, it was a mix of like guilt and then also kind of like hopefulness, because I know that I can help him. I’ll understand, like, I know what you’re going through, buddy. Like you don’t have to, like whatever you’re feeling is, like, it’s not normal, but it is for us, and this is how we control it. It’s but, yeah, you know, Dan Munro 19:51 essentially, because, okay, so again, there’s a common belief with psychopathy that people just don’t feel anything, which, of course, is bullshit. I. Um, but you mentioned two emotions that you’re not supposed to feel, essentially, which is fear and guilt. I was I just out of my own curiosity, I really wanted to know what that actually feels like for you, to see what it’s like compared, to say, my own experience when that door knocks. We start with that one when the door knocks, what actually physiologically happens inside of you that you call fear. Jackson Noble 20:29 Um, so like, for example, like the fear that most people would feel about like losing their house or get fired, or like a girl breaking up, or like a scary movie, or like a guy approaching you with a knife, like, those are fears that God people feel. You know, I feel no fear other than what gives me a bodily reaction, so, like the door on the dock. You know what? I mean, it’s, it’s gotta be like, like I would rather. I would rather I mean, you can say it’s scary to run through the street, but naked in a crowded area, I would rather do that than hear a knock on the door at two in the morning. 100% even if it’s nobody there. And I can find out in 10 seconds. You know, I would rather do a lot of things that most people consider fear and then just hear a knock on the door, and then, like, Heights is a good one. I feel like that, anything that makes you feel like your stomach’s dropping because, again, that’s not mental fear. That’s like bodily fear, you know, that’s like you’re dropping down. So other than that, though, I don’t feel fear like, like, if someone walked over and, like, just put a gun over this table. It was like, give me your money. I would just like, I feel like they just would walk away because I would just stare at them, like, I just honestly, my heart rate wouldn’t change at all. She’s seen that before. It’s just not, I don’t know, and I hate saying that, because it sounds like a tough thing, but I just think, like, scary, or what society thinks scary people are, are like, kind of like, I wouldn’t say funny, but like, they’re like, like, what are you doing? You know what I mean? I don’t know. Just sounds like someone’s screaming at a rally, or like, I don’t know. You know what I mean? It’s just, like a it just doesn’t it kind of makes me, like, laugh inside a little bit. It seems like they’re degrading themselves. You know, Dan Munro 22:20 there’s a real vocal video of, like, CCTV footage at a bar, I think, and this guy walks in with a gun tries to hold the place up. And there’s this one dude at the bar who’s like, it’s like, he doesn’t even know it’s happening. He just has a dream. Jackson Noble 22:34 Oh, is it like, black and white, that Chinese place? Speaker 1 22:36 I can’t remember. I think it is, like a salon, kind of no. Dan Munro 22:41 That might be another one that I think I know what you’re talking about. But this one he it looks like an American place, and the guys at the bar, and the dude puts a gun in his face, and he just bats it away like it’s annoying, and goes on like eating and, yeah, it’s just insane. It’s actually the, probably the most effective approach you could have in that situation. So yeah, because, Jackson Noble 23:05 for one, they’re likely not going to use the gut. They’re trying to scare you. That’s what those type of people are doing. That’s what they’re in there to do, to scare you, not kill you, or else they just kill you. So I think when you do that, they’re almost like, confused. You know, what was the other example? Yeah, like, one of my baby mamas, her boyfriend, yeah, her boyfriend, at the time, kicked in the door while I was over there, like seeing her, you know, and he kicked the door and with a knife, and he had just previously stabbed one of her boyfriends in that house, or a guy that she had that house, and he kicked the door in with me. And I just stood there and stared at him, and he was like, he like, stopped, and he was like, What are you doing? I was like, I’m chilling with my kid’s mom. Like, and then he just stood there and asked questions. And then, literally, she was on the phone, and he just got arrested the cop or after him. I just literally stood there and he just didn’t know what to do. He like, froze cuz their your reaction, you not having a reaction is more shocking to them than it is for me. For you to put a gun in my face, you know what I mean? So it’s like, they don’t know. It’s like, you know, it’s kind of like that method that the cops use, the the Nana booboo method. Have you seen that they’ll be talking to, uh, you don’t mind if I eat you, that’s fine. They’ll be talking to, like a person that they know is lying, and the cop will sit back and like, if they know the suspect’s lying, they’ll just sit there, and then they’ll just go, and then they’ll be like, now, what were you saying? And it throws off their train of process, because they weren’t expecting it. So, like, you can really manipulate, like that, you know, like little, tiny, little things. And Dan Munro 24:45 this the other day actually, because I got a similar, similar ish thing with fear. But my, my wife, took me to this. It’s like a you get to eat at a table, but it’s lifted up by a crane into the air. And you’re up, like, No way. I don’t know it’s, it was pretty fucking high. I thought felt high. Jackson Noble 25:06 I didn’t kids ago, 100 feet. I’ve seen that. Dan Munro 25:11 Yeah, it’s like 100 feet in the air, and you’re sort of strapped into, I could not do that, like a gamer chair or whatever. And, and I didn’t think it would be that scary until we got up there. I’m like, Oh, this is fucking high, and the seats a little bit wobbly, you know, and your legs are hanging free. And then I was on the corner, and you could actually pivot this chair out the sides of just sort of hanging over the edge. And I was just like, the feeling, I Jackson Noble 25:35 could not do that, dude, yeah. Dan Munro 25:38 I just, I, you see, I like that feeling. I was, like, you like it? Yeah, I like that feeling, Jackson Noble 25:48 but I don’t like it because I feel out of control. If something happens, I can’t I can’t do anything about it. I don’t like being in the passenger seat of a car. I don’t like, you know what I mean, Dan Munro 26:01 actually, I got the passenger seat thing too. I always had to drive. I fucking can’t stand me passenger. I just like slamming my foot through the floor the whole time. I just can’t do it. Yeah, yeah, that’s interesting. But, no, I quite like the heights thing, but at some point a gun on my face. Well, I don’t know what I’d do. It’s never happened, but I think I’d shit myself. I don’t really nice. Jackson Noble 26:20 I’ve always thought that. But then when it happens, it’s like, what are you doing, dude, get away from me. Unknown Speaker 26:26 You know? Yeah, I Jackson Noble 26:27 think my especially if I’m busy that day, then I’ll be like, Dan Munro 26:31 coming back to the other one, which was the guilt. So you mentioned feeling the guilt when you got that cool, like, when you use that word, what do you mean? Jackson Noble 26:41 So the guilt when I got that call, yeah, what call? Oh, just like guilt that, like he could have something because of me, genetically, you know, I thought Dan Munro 26:53 that was interesting, because, again, you’re not really, according to all the literature, you’re not really supposed to feel that. But I think actually, the literature is almost certainly incorrect. I mean, everybody I’ve worked with is high in psychopathy, has these moments that, you know, there’s something that matters to them, and it kind of creates an exceptional experience, Jackson Noble 27:18 yeah. And I think, I think with the with the thing, being my own son, he’s an extension of myself. So it’s like, you know, I mean, I feel bad that you gotta deal with that buddy because of me. If, if that’s the case, you know Dan Munro 27:31 that being said, I think because you know, we’re in contact at the time, you very quickly went to I’ll be able to help him out with this. Yeah, yeah, Jackson Noble 27:41 yeah. I knew I would be able to Yup, so I took control over it, but like, it’s not guilt as in if, like, if someone walked over here right now and they tried to rob us, and I stabbed him in the neck and he died. Like I could just keep eating, and there’s no guilt there. But when it’s my own child, I feel like I wouldn’t say he’s even guilty, but I feel bad that like maybe you wouldn’t had that, had I not had that, you know. And again, keep in mind, the guilt thing is only for extensions of myself. It’s not for strangers, Dan Munro 28:14 you know, that would make sense to the internal locus of control. I think you I saw one of your videos lately where you clarified. It’s not that you don’t have feelings as your feelings are for you exactly. Other people sort of have feelings for others. And I thought like, that’s probably one of the greatest distinctions I’ve ever heard around this, is the feelings are self focused, but they still and Jackson Noble 28:36 that’s what that’s another thing with Jordan or my son be an extension of myself. It’s that he’s a reflection of me. His behavior goes on me, you know, Dan Munro 28:48 I remember, I’ve read the book and seen the interviews with the The Iceman, as he’s Jackson Noble 28:55 called, yeah, see, even he had feelings for his family, right? Dan Munro 28:59 Yeah. And, I mean, he was extremely disordered. I mean, he was about as apathetic about human suffering as a person can be. But yeah, he would get very upset about matters to do with his family, and you could tell it went both ways, to at least to some extent, with one of his daughters. I mean, she refused to even believe that he had done these things, and she was supporting him all the way and so on. So it was interesting. Yeah, it’s probably like you say, he always seemed to talk about his family like it was this thing he could created that was his, and he was obsessed with it, because it was the only thing outside of me, Jackson Noble 29:42 because it because your family is yours, your family is yours, you know. So it’s like when you lose that, you lose control of that, you know. And it might sound bad, but Dan Munro 29:55 this is again, you know, I know psycho. He’s a good example, though, yeah, I know psychopathic. People who would, in a second, throw their kid under a bus if that was convenient for them. So it’s not all, not all people that feel that way. You know, I’ve seen, I mean, some of the most horrific child abuse cases come from just the apathy of somebody who’s high in psychopathy, that just lack of interest, really, oh yeah, I’ve seen some horrible things. So they don’t actually have that same attachment, like you do. They don’t have that sense that this kid is anything more, yeah. Jackson Noble 30:29 Again, that might be an amateur way to look at it, because, I mean, for it might be an amateur level of psychopathy, because that means you’re going to go to jail, and you just lost something that you could have taken credit for if they succeeded. So it’s like, you know what I mean, I think they’d have less psychopathy versus someone like me or the Iceman, or, you know, even Gacy or Bundy that actually obtained the family, you know, and didn’t harm them. Dan Munro 30:55 Yeah, it’s fascinating. Well, I think, and you and I talked about this is before there’s also the sadism element, which is not every psychopath is also sadistic. Not everybody gets their thrills from hurting people so on, which might have an impact on their decision making around that, I think, just painfully understudied, because everybody’s always focused on the prison population. It Jackson Noble 31:22 really is, you know, yeah, that’s what I was thinking, too. They say it’s one in four the population that makes up a psychopaths. But like, what about how many? There’s probably 10 times more psychopaths that don’t even know, don’t get studied, don’t have a reason to, you know, oh, Dan Munro 31:39 I imagine. And there’s probably subcategories, I think we’re starting to see, like there can be people on the spectrum, high on the spectrum, but they have different clusters of behavioral traits. Some of them have different clusters of like, range of emotions and things like that, that they could probably be sorted into categories, and that maybe psychopathy is actually too broad a term, but, yeah, it’s like, like, someone like you. If you’d stayed in prison and kept getting in trouble, then they would have, you know, somebody would have come along one day and studied you and added your stats to the data. But you got out before you were noticed, so to speak. And so your stats, don’t, you know, your particular flavor of psychopathy doesn’t skew the data points. Jackson Noble 32:29 Okay, I like flavor of psychopathic, so I like that, Dan Munro 32:33 yeah, like, like I said, I consider myself somewhere on the spectrum. I’m not high up. But, Jackson Noble 32:39 you know, like I told that. I told that to her after our first interview. I was, I can tell just because we get along, you know, Dan Munro 32:47 I definitely don’t feel any repulsion towards you or anything because of it. I feel much more like, like, I sent the test to my best mate, the guy I’ve been friends with since we were 13, been in a band together and all that. Like, just the things that he finds funny, for example, and just like you can never share that with anyone but me, bro, because they will lock you up. Yeah, yeah. That. Keep this chat private. Make sure nobody ever sees this. And his general lack of interest in anything that doesn’t directly involve him, even down to little things, like, if you want to hang out with him, you have to go to his house, because he will not, like, put any effort in see, like, somebody else’s convenience. Yeah, he’s not like, a selfish dude, right? Yeah, just everything has to be exactly how he wants it to be and so on. So, yeah, he’s Jackson Noble 33:37 got, he’s got everything buttoned up. That’s the same way I am. Well, that was Dan Munro 33:45 one of the things I didn’t get to explore with you much. We talked a lot about parenting last time, but both you and Tegan mentioned being homebodies, as you call it. You know that you don’t sort of venture out very much. Tell me a bit more about that and why that’s the case for you guys. For you in particular, Jackson Noble 34:07 I have less control of what happens if I’m not at home. You know what I mean. And also I know my like, I don’t have a sad temper. But again, that’s because I’m a homebody. If I was like, I’m out and about right now. So what was to walk by and just, like, not even look at me wrong, I wouldn’t say that. But like, if, like, someone was to walk by and like, say something derogatory towards her, or like, touch her, or like spit on her, or something, just be an asshole, or like, try to, like, mug one of us, or something, you know what I mean? Then it would be an absolute, you know, clinic display of a psychopath amongst other people. You know what I mean, and I, and I realized that, so I try to avoid that a lot. You know what I mean, just because it’s like, you know how you are, like, Dude, it’s like, you. Uh, it’s like, uh, some people are like, Oh, if you’re sober, you should be able to go in a bar. That’s part of being sober. You should be able to go in a bar, Let watch other people drink and not drink. I believe that. But I also believe that if you know you’re powerless over it, which is the first step of the 12 steps, and you know that you can’t go to a bar without drinking. Isn’t it better that you don’t? It doesn’t make you less of a sober person. You know what I mean. So that’s the way I look at it, like I know better than to put myself in a situation where there’s a bunch of drunk people, because I know what I’ll do, you know, and I know what they’ll do. And I’ve called it a bunch of times, Dan Munro 35:41 I was just gonna say, do you find that that’s restrictive in any way, like that you feel sort of hemmed in, or is this actually just suits you? Jackson Noble 35:52 No? Because I again, like I do feel I don’t feel restricted because I’m so creative, like I have a creative mind, so I’m always doing something, I got my hands and everything, so I actually feel less restricted, because a lot of my stuff is in my head. So I’m more, you know, I’m restricted out here because this dude in the red shirt could just, and that’s, I’m not trying to suck a hard ass. I’m just telling the truth. Like, this dude in the red shirt over here, the blue shirt over here just came up and like, oh, who do you think you are? Leather Jacket did all that. I can avoid it and avoid it, but if he did, let me avoid it. Now I am completely restricted in how I want to be, because I have to, you know, I mean as to where I’m home, not restricted. I’m completely in control of how, how the night will play out. I know for sure what’s going to happen, you know what? I Dan Munro 36:48 mean? Okay, so you can Jackson Noble 36:49 go for walks, you know? You can go out, go for a walk. You can go, like, right now we go do stuff real quick, like, we get out. It’s not constantly in the house, you know, but I’d say at least 90% of the time in the arts. And I write, so I work from home. It doesn’t matter, Dan Munro 37:11 you know, so no real sense of loss of opportunity or anything like that. Like this is actually suits you? Yeah, Jackson Noble 37:18 no, because I could come out and mingle like say, let’s say, for the past six months, I was out mingling around and I was finding opportunities and meeting people that I don’t need. You know what I mean? Because I’m the only one that control my life, like no one I meet is going to benefit me more than I benefit them. I really believe so most people, you know, but yeah, there the loss of opportunity would be for me not staying home and writing the best seller, writing his book, and building this thing, and then you even finding it. Sure I’m saying, Unknown Speaker 37:53 yeah, Dan Munro 37:56 yeah, about it, but I’m actually pretty similar myself. Well, I do get out of the house, but I, you know, I had an interesting moment the other day, actually, I was out with my daughter. Take her. There’s these little fountains in our house. She’s playing. I could see this kind of homelessy, drunky sort of dude. He was obviously trying to bomb cigarettes from people, and he was making our way towards us. I sort of caught him on the periphery and tensed up a bit. You know, here we go, when he came to talk. Like, one part of me is sort of like, yeah, I could be compassionate and connect with them, have a chat with them, but the other part of me is like, No, I’m with my daughter off. You know, that was a and that was just like, it brushed them away like a fly like, I was just like, No, no. Go on. Yeah, it’s like, Jackson Noble 38:43 as I walked into psychopath in the same, by the way, all right, as I Dan Munro 38:46 was sort of walking away, part of me was sort of reconsidering, and I’m like, you know, what was that? Did I, you know, was I sort of too dismissive, whatever, and I just thought, I just don’t care, like, I just Jackson Noble 39:04 again, yeah, yeah. And that’s the thing, though, because the daughter, your daughter is your kids are your priority. So I’d give you $1 but I don’t like how you’re approaching me. Get the word for me, because I have to assume you’re a threat, like we talked about last time. You know you’re not going to get the up. I mean, when I’m with my kid, you know what? I mean? Well, Dan Munro 39:24 this is one of the difference. I mean, Jackson Noble 39:25 they should know better. They should know better. They should know better. If I was homeless, I wouldn’t approach anyone with their child. You should know better automatically. You know, Dan Munro 39:34 this is one of the biggest difference. Like my wife, she would probably get the title Empath, like she’s like the opposite. She feels everything deeply, but she seems to be way more it’s either trusting or naive around people when we’re out Jackson Noble 39:50 a little bit, a little bit of both, yeah, Dan Munro 39:54 like you know, when we’re Jackson Noble 39:55 actually, actually, I think being trusting is naive. Yeah? It is value to be trusted. Okay, Dan Munro 40:03 so this is something I want to ask you about, because I’ve written a post where I say, like, trust is basically the illusion that you can predict people’s behavior, which is absolutely insanity. Tell me about your ideas on trust, man. Like, what do you think trust is Wait, Jackson Noble 40:20 wait, wait, wait. You think truck trust isn’t an illusion that you can predict people’s sanity. Dan Munro 40:27 No, what I think is trust is the illusion that you have the ability to predict someone’s long term behavior. Jackson Noble 40:36 You believe that that’s Dan Munro 40:38 what I think trust is. It’s Jackson Noble 40:40 I believe I agree with you. I agree with you like Dan Munro 40:44 I think trust is. Well, what I figured out is that trust is unnecessary for me. I will trust myself to handle people’s bullshit. I don’t need to trust them to be something because I can’t. Yeah, Jackson Noble 40:55 I’m going to close this for myself. I like that, yeah, yeah. But what were you saying? Well, I Dan Munro 41:01 want to know your ideas on trust and like, how it plays a role in your life. And Jackson Noble 41:07 with a I pick people immediately, so I’ll know if I can trust you. Like, I’ll take it like this, like, if someone lies to me about their age, you would cheat at me. If you lied to me about cheating on me, you would do something worse, you know what I mean. So you’re not you’re not lying. There’s no reason to lie, and I could get like little innocent if a girl’s trying to make you like her more. But even then, if you’re going to lie to me about who you are make me like you more then you’re also going to lie to me about what you do to make me not get mad. So I think I just pick it immediately. So I’ll ask questions that are on purpose, like, I’ll vet people. Like, I’ll completely, I will. It’s like a different version of stalking. It’s kind of like, you know, like, like, I’ll just find out. I’ll find out things about people before I need them. Know their mom, aunt, friends, know their whole family who’s at and then watch kind of like through their stories, what they do before I message them, so they’re not expecting it, and then I’ll be like, yeah, so blah, blah, blah, ask them a question, and if they lie, that’s done stop. You know, maybe because there’s no limits to lies, there’s no reason to lie to someone who just met for sure, you know? Dan Munro 42:25 Yeah, I think that’s what kind of ruined. Trust me, I spent basically my whole professional life studying what honesty is and just finding it’s there’s nobody that’s that, that’s that pure, that Everybody’s got a price, or everybody more more. So what I notice is, give someone enough time, they can become anything. So whoever you signed up right now, five years from now, deals off the likelihood, like even myself, how much I’ve changed myself. And sort of, if you measure like 10 year increments, I’m like different people every 10 years, it seems so is it trust somebody else? Jackson Noble 43:05 I think every I think every two to five years, people change. You know, I think I know some people shouldn’t trust me, because I use certain tactics to pull people in, but that’s only because I know that I have the best interest for the situation, and that if I’m making sure everything’s going to work out, you know what I mean? So it’s kind of hypocritical, but I don’t care. That’s just the truth, though, you know, I mean, but, but, you know, like, like, right here, if she lied to me, that’s a different story. But if I lie to you, you’ll realize why. Later on, you’ll be happy I dig, yeah, like, Where were you, you know, like, oh, doing this. But then, like, down the line I will also cover like, hey, just so you know that one night I lied. I’ll do it. Now I was actually planning this and doing this, and that’s why this worked. But you’d get mad about that girl being there. But look how cool these shots look. And here’s the proof. I didn’t, you know what I mean. So it’s like, it’s like, it’s classic psychopathic, like, double Dan Munro 44:13 standard, but you don’t give a well, there’s Yeah. What was I gonna say before I because one thing that struck me about you is that, and I don’t know if it’s psychopathy related or just more like your upbringing and kind of school of hard knocks thing, but you do seem to have a kind of pessimistic view of people in general, like you basically view others as more likely to be negative than positive in general. Is that fair to say? Thanks, Jackson Noble 44:49 in a way, they are usually actually but no, it depends. Like, if I’m with you, if I’m with someone, I have optimism for them, because I know, like I. Tell someone that they can be whatever they want to be, like, I have a disease that I’m going to manipulate you into thinking you can do anything you want just because I don’t see it. It’s struggle. I struggle strangers, for sure, but people that I’m with and I’m close to, I think it’s so like stupid to not think you can do whatever you want, so I’ll just relay that to them. So I’m really optimistic for people I know, and I almost force it on, you know. Dan Munro 45:33 Okay, so it’s more the unknowns that get the more paranoid suspicion type thing going. Jackson Noble 45:41 Yeah, that’ll care for him, you know. Dan Munro 45:46 And you’ve got quite a firm line between those two categories of people, like you’re in or you’re out kind of thing, Jackson Noble 45:54 yeah, yeah, true. But also it’s like, if a stranger comes to me and we have, like, a mutual beneficiion Or I said that wrong, but if, like, if we can a mutual exchange. Right now, you’re no longer you’re not extension of myself, but you’re no longer a stranger to me, and we can mutually benefit each other. That’s why I think CEOs work well, because they realize, like, Yeah, you, I might be using you, but you’re using me too, and we both agree with that, you know what I mean, like even me and you right now, like I could be using you for the clicks in the in the podcast, but then you could be using me for more views, but it but it doesn’t matter, people are benefiting each other, you know what I mean. And I actually already what was the two distinctions? It was like strangers than like acquaintances. It goes like stranger, like business acquaintance, and then extension of myself. And even from the last interview, I already put you more as an acquaintance, where at first you were a stranger. You know what I mean? Like, I told her that too. I said that too. Actually, right after the first one, I was like, he’s cool, yeah. I was like, I was actually, I was like, I would grab a beer with him, for sure, but that’s what I’m saying. So it’s like, now, but you know what I mean it takes that. It’s like, can you benefit me at all? I can benefit you, but I don’t really care if I can, even though I can, but can you benefit me? So again, it sounds like shit, but it’s like, that’s business all around. It’s in one on one, you know. And it’s honest. Most people won’t say that, you know, yeah, I always where a psychopath thinks they just can say it, you know, Dan Munro 47:31 yeah, a lot of people wouldn’t identify a psychopathic at all. You know, if you’re able to see inside their mind while they’re making decisions, you can see the transactional nature of a lot of that shit. Yeah, because this is something I was talking about with few people in different situations, but I was saying I actually find it easier to trust you than I do annoy me, because once I like the thing with a psychopath is, if I know they’re self serving, then I I get what they’re doing all the time. The Motive’s clean, right? And that’s the most right? You trust is when you’re very sure of what the motive is. You can predict the behavior. You know what the score is, what the deal is, yeah, Jackson Noble 48:13 you know what you’re getting. You’re not like, oh, is this person pretending to be mine? It’s like, no, it’s very blunt and brought forward. It’s, you know, Dan Munro 48:21 whereas I’ve had people in my life who are whatever the opposite of psychopath is, you know, very empathetic and blah, blah, blah, neurotypical, and they can turn on a dime just because of some traumatic thing happened to them, or they just had a change of mood, or something like that. And they’re actually wildly unpredictable, yeah, and their words don’t mean much, right? Their deals don’t mean much, because it’s just down to whatever feels good right now. And yeah, so it’s I’ve always found. But I mean, if I’m working with a guy who’s a gang leader and I’m as probation officer, I don’t trust him at all, you know? I mean, I in fact, but it’s more like, actually, I do, I trust that he’ll do Jackson Noble 49:06 it’s a fine line. He’s a fine line. Dan Munro 49:10 Like, like, I was working with a guy who was a the head of a motorcycle EMC, very savage guy done some fucked up shit. And I just knew every time he comes in, he’s going to try and do heat games on me. And because I knew that as I was actually quite safe, I don’t have to guess, right? It’s just always happening. So I just always respond accordingly, whereas other guys like me were ones who, like I thought were normal. You know? Jackson Noble 49:38 Yeah, that’s the thing. People try to lie about who they are. Everybody does not everyone has a mask on that I’m looking at right now, not just psychopaths, but a psychopath that’s honest or not, I wouldn’t say honest, but just like, Well, yeah, honest about that. They have it. It’s like, Alright, cool. Now I know who you are on. You know, like 100% like you, like we said before, psycho. Paths work really, really, really well when the rules are in their favorites. Dan Munro 50:05 Yep, there’s one thing you touched on. As Jackson Noble 50:08 long as the psychopath has women and money at his disposal, he’s not going to be much of a problem. Dan Munro 50:17 I think there was an wisdom of psychopaths. He was talking to a lawyer. He said, You know, why you not a serial killer? He’s like, I just deal with the urges with coke and women, and then I’m good. I just feed the beast. There’s something you mean, feed the beast, something I resonated with before. It’s an ego thing for me is I quite often feel like I’m the one who provides the value. So it’s very rare that I meet someone where I’m like, holy, you’re going to be at least as valuable as me in this in this thing now, which is how I feel about you. But it’s actually been a bit of a sore point in my life where, like, it’s hard for me to collaborate with people, cooperate with them, because they just let me down. They never performed to my level. I’m always the one sort of carrying the weight. It’s lead me down. Quite a lone wolf. Jackson Noble 51:08 Yeah, yeah. It makes you wish you could clone itself. Dan Munro 51:13 Well, what’s that been like for you? Because that’s actually been quite frustrating for me, because I know I could get more done if I had more help, but I just find people so disappointing so often. Jackson Noble 51:25 Um, I don’t care about it at all. I don’t think about it all because I just think I’m, like, the only thing he’s going to do it anyways. And I don’t, I don’t, yeah, I can care less. I don’t know. I just don’t care. I think, like, I know how to market, people will gravitate towards the strategic things that I do, and so I don’t need an individual person to like, you know, I do my folding, brand myself, my book, my editing, my you know? I mean, I should i I’ve had, I got people editing my book for free just to do it, you know what I mean. So it’s like, and that might be a psychopath thing too, where that makes it easier. But, yeah, I don’t, I don’t. I used to think that when I was making music, like, I wish I could clone myself, you know? But now it’s just like, I kind of prefer and just be like the Overseer and just create something completely alone. It actually feels way more easy. Because there’s less people to bicker with. You know, it’s just me and my inner voice doing it. You know, which we agree most of the time, Dan Munro 52:31 which I think we identified last time, is actually pretty unusual. Um, yeah, no, I think, you know, we’re different on that like, I feel like I could achieve so much more if I could tolerate people being less competent than me. But I really, yeah, but Jackson Noble 52:47 see, but you could also exploit the people that are less competent than you. Businesses, war, you know. Have you ever seen the McDonald’s movie? Dan Munro 52:56 No, I mean meaning to see that one, though, actually, that’s on my list Jackson Noble 52:59 to watch it. Just watch it about Ray Kroc and how he took over McDonald it’s exactly what we’re talking about, though. Dan Munro 53:10 Yeah, I don’t know if I have quite the ruthlessness. Like, yeah, Jackson Noble 53:14 that’s what he said. That’s what he said. He stole the company from the McDonald’s brothers. I don’t know if you know the story, but he was saying, he was saying. He said, if, if I, if my competitor was drowning, I would stick a hose to his mouth. Can you say the same? And they said, No. And he said, Okay, then. And then they, he just gave him a check and said, write a number on it. And he bought McDonald’s. Dan Munro 53:40 Jesus, yeah, that sounds he Jackson Noble 53:41 had a good point, though, you know, Dan Munro 53:46 yeah, I was watching, I was interview again with Kevin Dutton. He was talking about Andy McNabb and his one point Special Forces guy. And he was, he had a choice, whether or not to kill a kid who was going to rat him out. And he said, No, there’s no point in killing the kid, because then, you know, the whole area knows you killed a kid and they’re going to hunt you down, skin you and stuff. You better let him go, even if you get caught. Yeah. And he asked him, like, What if you knew you weren’t going to get caught unless you killed this kid? He’s like, Yeah, we probably shouldn’t talk about it. I was like, whoa. Like, any sense that it was actually about the kid and some sort of compassion, it was like, no, no. It was just a calculation. What’s the best move forward? Jackson Noble 54:30 Wait, wait, wait, say that. Say that again. Why didn’t you want to kill the kids at Dan Munro 54:34 first? He did. Basically did a calculation, if I kill this kid, and the people here find out. You know, he’s in the Middle East. You know, they’re gonna skin us alive, and it’s gonna be a nightmare. We’re probably gonna get found out anyway, because we’re in the middle of the shit, best to just let the kid go, and if we get caught, at least they’ll know we didn’t kill the kid, you know? But then I can’t remember how he worded. But it almost sounded like he had, like, compassion for the kid, like, like a rule, like, I don’t do kids that kind of thing. But then he was asked the question again, like, hypothetically, if you knew killing the kid, you could get away with it, and it would have, like, got you out of a shit. And that’s when he was, like, you just sort of see his eyes go a bit colder, sort of thing. And like, oh yeah, no, he it wasn’t about love for the kid or anything. It was just, Jackson Noble 55:25 yeah, have you seen lone survivor? Yeah, I don’t think so. With Mark Wahlberg, when they’re trapped and they’re in the army, like, well, Dan Munro 55:34 maybe I have, actually, yeah, I think I have, long time ago, Jackson Noble 55:41 yeah. They basically these dudes. They were like, trying to take out this Taliban leader, and they were hidden in the mountains, and this old man, these goats, and these two kids came up there, but they were looking at him, like, like, you feel like, Look, do they beat us? Either, we cannot kill. They are unarmed. We don’t have, you know, the rules of engagement. And they’re like, dude, but if we let them go, they’re going to run down there tell the whole village, and then, like, we’re going to have 200 ajis on our ass, you know what I mean. And then they made the decision to let them go. Sure as shit, they all came up there and they killed all of them but one. And I’m not going to lie in that decision, I would have took them out. Yeah, I would have just, just because they weren’t really kids. They were soldiers, you know, they were, they were like, they were, do you know what? I mean, it’s almost like, what would you do for your kid? I gotta get home to my kids like, I don’t want to do this. But if I don’t, there’s going to be 200 terrorists to come up here and shoot me to death, and I’ll never see my king girls doubled out of death. You’re a animal with the AK 47 even though you’re fucking 11 or 12 like you, but you’re gonna go down there and tell your whole army like I would have made the decision to just at least tie him up there. If they freeze, they freeze. They don’t, they don’t. But we can get out of there, you know? Dan Munro 57:05 Yeah, I think you’d do well with the trolley problem, you know, that one, no, the it’s a kind of bullshit thing, a psychopath test, but it’s not real, but it’s basically, you’ve got to flick a switch to take a train off the tracks. But if you flick the switch, it kills one person who’s tied to the tracks. But if you leave the train to do nothing, it kills five people. Jackson Noble 57:27 That’s like Dan Munro 57:31 a lot of people struggle with actually being the, you know, the instrument, the the one that actually causes the death, rather than just an innocent bystander, sort of thing, Jackson Noble 57:40 I would balance here for it, one, verse, five. Yeah, Dan Munro 57:44 that’s why it’s considered like the psych bath. This Psych path basically doesn’t hesitate just as the numbers goes. Jackson Noble 57:49 Now, now, now, if it was like a woman and the train had five guys, or if it was a child and the train had five guys, then I would, yeah, Dan Munro 58:00 well, there’s another one where they adjust it where, like, you can stop the train from killing five guys, but you have to push a big fat guy in front of it, like, physically yourself. You have to, like, murder the dude. And that’s when people start getting a little bit more, like, little about it, like, in the hands. Jackson Noble 58:16 Yeah, I would do it for sure. Dan Munro 58:19 Yeah, I don’t doubt it. Man, Jackson Noble 58:23 yeah, and I would probably sleep better than I have in a long time, because I saved five people. Dan Munro 58:28 You know, we’re supposed to talk about downsizing stuff, man, but I do struggle with you to find something that like you don’t enjoy about being you. You know what I mean, other than past stuff that, as you say, the knock on the mean, is Jackson Noble 58:42 there something currently about myself that I don’t enjoy being a psychopath? Yeah, can you see, or does Spider Man one with the Green Goblin? So let’s just, let’s just say, let’s just use Spider Man in psychopathy. You know, when Spider Man has the suit on, he’s a psychopath, right? But when he’s Peter Parker’s he’s Jackson, okay, why the would I want to take that suit off? Because if I’m Peter Parker, I’m a normal person, but with that suit on, I have a power again that gives me an edge, not only to do whatever I want feel more free, but also to help people. If I can, which I, if it helps me, I’ll do it. But like, you know, you know what I mean. So there’s zero things I’ve thought about that actually there’s zero things that like. If someone right now walked up to me and they said, I’ll give you $500,000 right now, but you can no longer be a psychopath. I would turn it down immediately. I wouldn’t even think about it, because I’ll make more money than that because I’m a psychopath, you know what I mean, and I just don’t want to be all. Like, emotional all the time. I don’t know this is I feel more effective. Like, imagine, on a bad day, you could just go like that, and just turn off all the stresses and emotions anxiety, and then you can just, how much more clear would you think? You know, there’s people that go to the gym to clear their heads. I don’t have to do that. I can just look in the mirror, you know what I mean. So it’s a complete advantage is nothing I would ever change about it. I feel grateful for it, actually. Dan Munro 1:00:28 Yeah, I get that sense that I wasn’t a surprise player. Answer, really, what about like? Are you ever curious about let’s say I could give you an injection that just turns you into a typical burst of like a day. Do you have any curiosity about that, where you’d want to know what it’s like to I don’t know. Get anxious about i Jackson Noble 1:00:52 No, because I already I thought about it, but no, because I already do know, because I study people like that’s my whole thing. You know, I feel like you’re overlooking that. I study people. I know how people I know what they I can assume what they feel like. I know how they act. I know what they think. I know what bothers them, what triggers them, what you know, what I mean, their how their past affects them. How if a girl’s super mad at you and she’s got all these emotions, she sends you a long voicemail, and she’s in front of her friends, how quickly you can shift all that energy when her friends aren’t around to get her back, because otherwise she wouldn’t have been expensive. So much energy towards her friends were around. That means she has a lot of energy for you. You know what I mean? Like, things like that, I already under I already understand how they work, because I’ve studied them my whole life, so I already really know what it’s like. And I don’t it kind of goes with the other answer, like, Nah, not interested in it. It would just basically be like, do you want to be have the most boring day? Like, like, Nah, I would, no, you know, Dan Munro 1:01:54 yeah, I wouldn’t. Wouldn’t have thought you’d be that keen on that. And like, you say you’ve observed it enough to go, like, I don’t want to borrow that. Jackson Noble 1:02:02 Yeah, I Dan Munro 1:02:04 get it. Yeah. The the analogy you get brown Spider Man. I can’t remember what movie I saw this in, but somebody was talking about Superman, and you’re saying the the difference with Superman to all the other superheroes Is that him dressed in the Superman costume is actually his normal clothes. Like, that’s the cape he came down and and his face is uncovered. That’s what he looks like. He dresses up as Clark Kent. That’s his that’s his costume. It’s his take on humanity. You know he’s short, sighted, clumsy, awkward, weak, passive. It’s him trying to pretend to be a person, you know, and so like, for him, Superman’s being normal, like, he has to, like, really downgrade to like, fit in with society. I thought that was a really interesting take, because, like most superheroes, the story is they were normal human, then they got, like, bitten by a spine. Jackson Noble 1:03:00 Yeah? That’s actually a direct correlation of what you just asked me, what I mean, like, do you think Superman would want to stay in that downgraded version? Absolutely not. You better fly around, yeah, and be powerful, you know what I mean, and have control, yeah? Dan Munro 1:03:15 So you would feel like it’d be a reduction in power and control for you to be typical, or whatever the it is, it isn’t. So, yeah, Jackson Noble 1:03:24 I actually said that yesterday. We were driving through this, like, packed area, this college time. I was looking around. I was like, God, I could not my exact words. Remember? I was like, I just had to sit there looking like these normal people with these normal minds, normal all everyone’s wearing the same thing. If I just it would be absolutely agonizing. And then, if I was normal, yeah, I could, no way, no way. That’s like asking, if you go to a amusement park, you want to go to the kitty section, or do you want to go to the stuff you’re used to, which is no good roller coaster. It’s very easy. This is, yeah, Dan Munro 1:04:07 fair enough. I was just thinking there’s probably no one in the world, no matter what they are, who would want to be more emotional, exactly? Well, actually, no, probably people with depression. But, yeah, nobody, not Jackson Noble 1:04:20 really, though, because depression takes a lot of emotions to be depression, to be depressed. Fair enough, it’s Dan Munro 1:04:26 actually all of them sort of turned up to 20 and, yeah, that’s interesting. Well, I don’t know. I’m digging, I guess, at this point, but forget that question. How about is there anything about yourself that you wish was different anything at all, not including past Jackson Noble 1:04:47 like at the moment. Yeah, I. Struggling to think I want, yeah, no, I’m really just he says, Is there anything that’s struggling, or is there anything right now currently that you would change about yourself. Yeah, look on her face. I just couldn’t. Yeah, I don’t know that sounds so conceited, but I’m being honest. I can’t, thanks. Good. No, Dan Munro 1:05:39 yeah, he might be a psychopath, mate, Jackson Noble 1:05:42 yeah, I guess so. Yeah, you might be a psychopath, Dan Munro 1:05:47 right? The No, that’s, there’s a lot of people. That’s a very alien thing, you know, I want to define confidence, you know, I’ll constantly redefine it. But one way to define it is, you wouldn’t trade places with anyone. Jackson Noble 1:06:01 Like, is that? Is that really? Yeah, Dan Munro 1:06:03 that’s just how I define it. Is, like, you know, you’ve reached confidence. If you’re like, No, I’m going to see this guy through like, I don’t want to swap with anyone. Oh, yeah, Jackson Noble 1:06:11 yeah. The only thing I could think of was, like, Man, I guess I’d be rich right now. But then again, I also enjoy the journey of getting rich, because that is a direct correlation of gaining power. You know what? I mean, that’s the way I look at it. And I mean, like going along that journey, you know, like, you know, someone think, Oh, would you, would you rather be born rich or acquire? Well, I’d rather acquire it, because that’s gives me more confidence, and it just affirms who I know I am, that I can create this thing out of nothing, you know? Dan Munro 1:06:44 Yeah, I actually, I hate freebies myself. I like to earn Jackson Noble 1:06:49 shit. You might be a psychopath, huh? Dan Munro 1:06:52 Yeah, halfway there. I think I got too much anxiety. I need to join the club, yeah? But it’s fascinating, man like, I think what you’ve really picked up on more than anything else that it comes down to this one point of impulsivity. You know, if you can manage that, if you can control your urges, rather than controlling anything, psychopathy is pretty enjoyable state. If you’re in a there’s no sense of wanting to be anywhere else. Jackson Noble 1:07:27 Yes, yeah, I do have puck thoughts, though. Like I’m looking right now and I’m thinking, I’m looking swift by camera. I’m at, like, I’m at, like, a college campus, and I’m just walking around looking, and I’m not going to lie, I’m having a thub. How easy it would have been for Bundy. Like, it makes so much sense. It really does. Like, like, again, I’m not going to do that, but I just, I just can’t help but realize, like, everyone’s like, how was he able to it’s like, pretty, pretty, take away all the phones and give me a gold or yellow bug, and it’s over, you know, yeah, as Dan Munro 1:08:08 long as it’s just a thought, you’ll be alright, and everybody else, I guess. But well, I think you’ve, you’ve figured out the formula. Not that you need my ego boost, but like I said, you know, one of the things that fascinated me about you is, you know, I’ve worked with the guys who got the similar psychological profile to you, but they could not control themselves. And as you said, Yeah, it’s interesting, like they got their thrills or their pleasures or whatever, sadistically, but they lost in the long run, they ended up with, Jackson Noble 1:08:41 yeah, they have no control, yeah. So they, they took control in an impulsive way. And don’t, don’t. Get me wrong, I deal with impulses of a lot. I have to clench my teeth sometimes. But you know, in the long run, I know I have more control, and that’s what I prioritize, which was what I think. You know what I mean, like a dominant psychopath would do. They would. They wouldn’t trade a short impulse for long run control. Dan Munro 1:09:15 Yeah. Well, that’s again. So I think this the the theories are outdated and lacking information, because, apparently, psychopaths do not think long term. But I think you contradict that idea. Jackson Noble 1:09:30 Well, I don’t think that’s even I think long term, it’s more of a control thing overlap that, you know, so Right? I think me wanting control forces me to think long term because I don’t otherwise, you know, it’s Dan Munro 1:09:41 more you’re choosing just the best move, really, right? Yeah, it’s Jackson Noble 1:09:46 a chess game. Again, it’s all a game, you know? Dan Munro 1:09:51 Well, that’s actually, you know, I play a bit of chess, and there’s some debate about, you know, there’s a difference between strategy and tactics, and actually. Is an idea that somebody, if they’re really good at tactics, they don’t actually need a strategy. Exactly. The principles are solid enough. Anyway, cool, man. Well, look, we’ll wrap it up there for today. And yeah, we’re Jackson Noble 1:10:15 just about to start this photo too. I wonder if I can see it from here.

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