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🔥 New Podcast Episode – A Love Story Like No Other 🔥

You asked for it, and now it’s here. After my last podcast with the brutally honest psychopath Jackson Noble, one question kept flooding my inbox:

“What about his partner, Teagan?”

How does a woman navigate life and love with an open psychopath? What’s it like to raise a child with him? Can a relationship with someone diagnosed with Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD) actually be healthy?

Teagan didn’t just agree to answer—she came ready to share it all. As someone who identifies as neurodivergent and believes she has Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD), her perspective on love, trust, and emotional connection is anything but conventional. And yet, she says her relationship with Jackson is “99% healthy.”

In this episode, we dive into:
💡 What it’s really like being in love with a psychopath
💡 How emotional depth (or lack of it) shapes their relationship
💡 Whether she feels safe with him compared to past relationships with neurotypical men

Teagan’s story is raw, unexpected, and completely fascinating. Let’s hear it from her.

Listen here:

This is the 2nd of a 3 part interview series. The other episodes include

• Jax’s advice for building confidence
• Jax reveals the darksides and downsides to being ASPD

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Note:

Jackson is a self-proclaimed psychopath. I have received accusations from people on the internet that he commits various frauds or scams (none substantiated with any evidence I should add). Even if these are true – when doing podcast interviews I always give the interviewee the benefit of the doubt and let them say whatever they want. I trust you, the listener, to discern for yourself whether you believe or trust my guests. It should be obvious: if a guy says he’s a psychopath, don’t be shocked if his business practices are less than ethical. Use your logic when engaging in any purchases, deals or negotiations.

What’s It Like to Love a Psychopath?

Dan Munro 00:00

Welcome back to Brojo online. Now I’ve got a new podcast for you that’s here by popular demand. The last podcast I did was with the psychopath Jackson Noble, and one of the common comments that I got were inquiries about his partner. People wanted to know what it was like for her to be with an open psychopath; to be in a relationship, a loving relationship with him, to observe him as a father and a partner, and to know if it’s possible to have a healthy and loving relationship with somebody with antisocial personality disorder. Well, his partner has graciously agreed to be interviewed and to talk about her experiences openly and honestly. Her name’s Tegan. I’m going to let her tell her story. Let’s meet her together.

Dan Munro 00:54

Well, let’s start from the beginning. And, I don’t mean that you have to explain your whole childhood, but, I don’t know anything about you. So, let’s solve that. Tell me a little bit about you and what’s led up to this moment?

Teagan 01:09

Well, my parents divorced when I was at a very, very young age. I think I was one or two, maybe. They always had a tumultuous relationship. I never saw them in a room together, being happily together. So, that was the situation growing up. Jack actually thinks that my dad is a psychopath as well, but I don’t know. I think I might be biased towards it just because I never pictured him to be that. But he does share a lot of the same traits, I guess. But, I lived with my dad most of the time, and then I would see my mom on the weekends. And, I graduated high school, and then I started doing lashes for a while, and then met Jack. There’s a bunch of stuff in between there, a lot, but I’m kind of skimming. And then, we actually met on Tiktok, and then I flew out a couple times, and then ended up moving here.

A Father’s Influence: Did Teagan’s Dad Shape Her Choices

Dan Munro 02:25

And, here we are. Oh, well, that’s interesting about your dad. We’ll definitely have a bit of a look into that.

Teagan 02:33

I thought I should bring it up, because it is kind of interesting.

Dan Munro 02:37

Yeah, and I don’t believe in all the Freudian bullshit, but I do think that the father daughter dynamic, the father’s kind of setting up a template for what a man is.

Teagan 02:49

No, definitely, for sure. And, watching Jack parent the way that he does is very interesting, because he does it very differently from my dad. The thing with my dad was kind of a lack of affection. So, watching that vicariously through Jack’s daughters is always fascinating. And, I’m just, like “Huh? I didn’t know that it could be like that”, and I love that. So, I think that’s part of the reason why I, or one of the many reasons that I love him. It’s just the way that he does things is just so different, and it’s so logical, too.

Dan Munro 03:30

Interesting. I mean, I’ve worked with a lot of people whose parents were more psychopathic. Psychopath is this thing, psychopathic just a spectrum.

Teagan 03:38

Uh huh.

Dan Munro 03:42

And, they would generally report very low affection.

Teagan 03:47

He was a very quiet guy. I don’t want to say awkward, but, I don’t know he’s different.

Dan Munro 04:01

Cool. Well, okay, let’s have a look at how you and I came to be talking, and we’re just gonna explore things. I’m really fascinated to hear the story arc of how you guys met and how your relationship developed, and what it’s like to be you with him.

Teagan 04:24

So, okay, go ahead.

Dan Munro 04:29

Let’s just say, let’s go back to the beginning and go through that meeting up phase and how you guys got together.

From TikTok to True Love: How They Met

Teagan 04:37

Okay, so I saw him on Tiktok. Then I added him. Then he sent me a message. And, it was…I wish I could pull up these messages because they’re so ridiculous. Looking back, it was just immediate, I don’t want to say it, I’ll say it, but he sent me some emojis, and I responded back. I was like: “You look like my next codependent enabler”, and then, it just went from there. I was joking, but it kind of turned out to be, that’s how it is. But, we just immediately clicked and started talking, and I flew out the next week to come and see him, and then kept talking, and I don’t know. I feel you’re gonna have to ask me questions, detailed questions, because I don’t know what part is, the interesting part for you. Do you know what I mean?

Dan Munro 05:41

I get you.

Teagan 05:43

Well, it’s just my life.

Dan Munro 05:44

Well, okay, let’s start with the first bit, which is, so, if you saw him through his social media, I’m assuming that you knew about the psychopath thing up front.

The Moment She Learned He Was a Psychopath

Teagan 05:55

No, no. So, this was before he actually advertised it. I guess, if you go back, probably, in December, that’s when it clicked for him: “Oh, if I post this online, there’s attention from it that I can funnel into my book.” And his idea for the book didn’t even come until, I think it was November or December. So this is all very recent. I didn’t know for sure that he was until he showed me his tests that he had taken, the, I forget what it’s, the Hare something, the psychopathy test or whatever. And that was interesting too, because I really didn’t know how to take it. And there were a few days, or a week, where I was shut down. I’m like: “Does he just not feel anything? Is this all fake?” But then we talked about it, and I was like, okay, nothing really changed. It’s just a label, no?

Dan Munro 07:12

Well, this is the bit that’s really fascinating for me personally, because I see so much content on there about various things, we’ll call them, mental disorders. But disorder isn’t always the right word if the person’s functioning well, but states that have labels, and we never get to hear about what it’s like to be the partner. We’re always hearing about a sick person, and they nearly always have someone else who’s there in the background, who’s living this. And I really, I want to dive a bit deeper into you processing this information. Tell me, what I’m interested in is, what did you suspect or feel or know before he revealed this?

Control, Boundaries, and the Rules of Their Relationship

Teagan 08:02

So, I knew that his need for control was–he can’t function without it, total control. He cannot. I remember the first time we ever got into an argument, he had said some choice words. And I was like: “Don’t talk to me like that out of that.” And I was getting on his ass about it. And he was not having it. He immediately was like: “Oh, you can go”, sounds toxic, but, he immediately set boundaries, and he was like “Okay, this is how I am. This is what I need to function and what I’m going to do. And if you don’t like it, I don’t want to keep you here, go find something that you like and that you want to be with.” And then for me, it’s just weighing things out, because I have dated narcissists in the past, actual narcissists, not psychopaths or sociopaths. And some of the traits are similar. Some of them outweigh the others, if you know what I’m saying. So, his drive for things is incredible. I’ve never seen somebody so resilient and doing what they do, just day after day after day, not letting up, and that ends up benefiting me as well. So, it is like having to weigh out the positives and negatives of it. But, once I realized he’s not doing it to be a menace… he’s not doing it to hurt my feelings or anything, this is just what he needs to be as successful as he can.

Dan Munro 09:55

Okay, interesting. So, the control thing was very… it sounds like it was different to what you were used to. So, you’re getting a much sort of firmer boundary, and so you picked up that this was a control thing right out of the gate.

Teagan 10:13

Definitely. And I also learned very quickly that it’s not worth it to challenge it. See, I try not to read his Tiktok comments a lot, because they’re just crazy. I always see a lot of girls in his comments talking about “Oh, I would be the psychopath back”, and that type of vibe. That is not sustainable in a relationship with a psychopath: challenging them in any way is just not…it’s off the table. And eventually, I mean, at a certain point I’m like, he takes it where it needs to go anytime anyway, so me challenging him is not going to help. You know what I’m saying?

Dan Munro 11:10

Just delaying the inevitable, sort of thing.

Teagan 11:15

And it’s not… that’s another thing too. There is manipulation involved. But, if you zoom out and look at the bigger picture, he’s not manipulating me to do anything that would be bad for me. For example, when I first met him, I was in active addiction, I won’t say to what. But, within a few months, I had completely cut all that shit out, and he was the main reason why I even did that. Otherwise, I would probably still be doing it to this day. Yes, he manipulated me, but, that’s for the best, and it’s hard to argue that.

Dan Munro 12:04

Well, because straight away I’m thinking. Who do you have to be for this to work, and to be his partner?

Teagan 12:12

Very passive.

Dan Munro 12:16

Right. Because I think the question a lot of people are going to have, which is actually going to be the wrong question to ask is, essentially, is your relationship healthy?

Is Their Relationship Healthy?

Teagan 12:28

Yeah, is it healthy? Is it safe?

Dan Munro 12:32

Right. It’s an oversimplified question, because everything we’re talking about is on a spectrum in every relationship. I mean, there’s no relationship on this earth that does not involve manipulation. There’s not a relationship on this earth that does not have a dominant and a submissive partners, sort of. So, yours is going to be, I’m guessing, an extreme version of it, where he’s very dominant. And, I’m guessing you’re very much the follower rather than the challenges. I want to know more about your role and what you need to do to fit with him.

Teagan 13:11

I guess the main thing would be just allowing him to take the wheel, no matter what the situation. I would say, I don’t know what’s a difficult question. If I can anticipate his needs… so, if he has an idea, I’m gonna do this today. I need to be able to anticipate what he needs with that, because he thinks so quickly that if his stuff isn’t lining up in order behind it, then he can’t get it done. So, I just have to facilitate things behind the scenes, and make sure that things run smoothly. But the main thing I would say is just: “Don’t challenge it, because it’s not worth it.”

Dan Munro 14:14

Right. That’s interesting. I think a lot of people are going to struggle with this idea. He has sort of complete leadership.

Teagan 14:25

Yeah, but it doesn’t bother me, though, because he has proven to me time after time that he does want what’s best for me. He wants me to be the best version of me that I can for me, because that helps him, too. If I’m the best version of me, he wants the best version of me. So it isn’t, it isn’t so toxic. I don’t know, it’s not like he wants me to struggle or be in pain. That’s not how it is at all.

Dan Munro 14:59

Okay, because this is really interesting, and I’m all kinds of trigger because you’re describing me in the relationship as well. Being a coach and everything. But, I can also, I’m constantly pushing my wife to be what’s best for her.

Teagan 15:20

Yeah, and there’s no malice behind it. But it just sounds like “Oh, I’m manipulating her.” It sounds like a terrible thing, but it isn’t because he’s helping me. It just the way that he goes about it seems malicious, but it’s not.

Dan Munro 15:41

Now, this is really fascinating. Because what I see, far more commonly, and it will be from the people who are going to judge you for this… You won’t need to read, no, but my audience, they’ll be all right, it’s others I’m worried about. But, the kind of people who would be judgmental to you are probably also the kind of people who manipulate their partner for their advantage, not for the partners’. That they’ll change the partner away from what’s best for them in order to make them more convenient to themselves. As Jackson, I guess. And this is how I feel, as well being half psycho myself, is it’s like everybody wins if she follows this path, that I’m not imposing anything on her, that she isn’t.

Teagan 16:38

You quoted him essentially.

Dan Munro 16:45

Well, this is interesting, because obviously there are certain personality types that just would clash to carnage with him and it would not work, but it seems to work for you. So for how long have you guys been together?

Teagan 17:06

It’s going on, two years now, I think.

Dan Munro 17:12

Well, here’s the thing. I think if it was unhealthy, we would be seeing symptoms by now. And, and this is, you can just be as sort of as upfront as you want. From your point of view, does it feel there are any toxic, harmful symptoms coming through? Is there anything you’re seeing that indicates this isn’t as good as it appears to be?

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Fear, Trust, and That One Scary Moment

Teagan 17:45

So, for the most part, like 99%, no. However, I was gonna mention this too, there was one time where I felt, I guess you could say unsafe, really, just squirming. I don’t know, it’s such a weird feeling. But, there was one time when I had found some information out that I probably shouldn’t have known. Information that he is very, very, very cautious about. And, he was getting worried that I might tell somebody this information and that is, I saw a light flick in his head, and it was, it was so scary. I don’t know. I’m sure you’ve been with the psychopath, and you get that feeling you’re a prey or something, that you just sit there and squirm and try to be still, but you can’t, and so that was the only time when I was ever like “Okay, this is… maybe I should leave”, but we ended up resolving it. And, I’m not really worried about it, because I know that he knows that he can trust me and with things like that now.

Dan Munro 19:20

So you got a glimpse of the darkness there.

Teagan 19:23

Yes and, and it’s, I know, I know people say about the eyes thing, you can’t really see it, but maybe it was just the shadow behind him, but his eyes looked black. I’ve never actually seen them go like that before, but then again, I don’t know it could be just placebo.

Dan Munro 19:46

I do think there’s some element to this. I think the eyes are just organs, and we project onto them what we want to believe. Yes, no, I’ve been in the room when a violent psychopath is upset with me, and that feeling of “Oh, shit, this person is capable of anything, and I mean nothing to them at this moment”. It’s being with a crocodile or something.

Teagan 20:19

Trapped in a cage, right.

Dan Munro 20:23

I am kind of surprised that it really happened once, frankly. And see, the interesting thing for me is, a lot of people are going to be worried about your safety just because of the hype around what the word psychopath means. But I’ve worked with many men who have murdered their partners, and almost none of them were psychopaths.

Teagan 20:43

That always makes me laugh when people are talking about how I might not be safe. I am the most safe that I have ever been with him. It’s having a tiger on a leash. Because I am an extension of himself, he will protect me with his life, and I know that. So, my safety is not

something that I worry about at all, not just from him, but from anybody, because of him.

Dan Munro 21:18

Right? That’s what I would expect. Because I’d say the number one complaint that I get from my female clients is that they don’t feel protected by their partner. They don’t trust that their partner would step up and put, not even get awkward on their behalf. That’s never shown the sign of willing to suffer in order to protect the family, and they find that far more distressing.

Teagan 21:45

There was one time when we were in a hotel room and it was super early in the morning, I think, and somebody had knocked on the door and we were sleeping, and by the time I sat up in the bed to see what was going on, he was already beside the bed, and he was holding the remote in his hand, and the batteries had fallen out, he had cocked it, like it was a gun. He was ready to go before I even sat up, just at the knock of a door. So I’m not worried about it, knowing that he is just there, even when he’s sleeping, that makes me feel so safe.

Dan Munro 22:31

I think that’s going to be a real mindfuck for people: the idea that you actually feel more safe with someone like him.

Teagan 22:39

That’s the funny part about it too, people worry about it, and it’s like…you have no idea.

Dan Munro 22:50

What are some of the things, and this is just going to be your own personal experience and preference. But, what are some of the things he does or demonstrates that gives you that sense of safety?

Teagan 23:04

So, going in public is a big one. He’ll cut up on me. For example, there was another time when we were downtown and I was trying to figure something out on my phone, and he cut up. And, I forget exactly what he said, but he was like “Hurry the fuck up. Come on, we gotta go.” And, I was like calm down, geez. And I was just oblivious to the fact that we were in downtown Detroit, which is not the best area just to be standing on the street. And I didn’t know that, but he’s like “Come on!” So, knowing that is another thing too, I’ve had to learn that him getting frustrated and cutting up on me isn’t him trying to be an asshole, it’s the opposite. So it’s, I don’t know, I just feel safe, especially in those situations, in public. Also, he doesn’t really like to go out in public anyway and I’m much of a homebody too, so knowing that if he were to go in public, he would do something if he had to. And that’s the reason why he doesn’t go out. It’s okay, that proves that he’ll go the extra level to make sure that I’m safe, if that makes sense. I don’t know if I worded that right.

Dan Munro 24:47

So he’ll actually try to avoid what might be a high risk situation for him. I remember him talking about fathering in that similar way just reducing the number of sort of options where something bad can happen, kind of thing.

Teagan 25:06

And, that’s another thing too. His ability to go zero to 100 I’ve seen it so many times. He’ll just be fine chilling, and then something even small happens, and he is just on 10, ready to go. I won’t get into too many times that that happened, but it’s regular.

Dan Munro 25:29

You actually, I saw it must have been you filming, I think. There’s a video where, I think you call them into the room and you’ve set up, I don’t know.

Teagan 25:42

It’s, oh, the alien, alien.

Dan Mun 25:47

He comes swinging into the room “What do you want?”, and then the minute he sees that alien, the peripheral, Mike Tyson is the fucking thing.

Teagan 25:54

That’s a good example, right there. He’s just ready to go all the time. But I like that he knows that so well about himself that he actively avoids it. That’s just another layer of safety.

Dan Munro 26:11

Well, again, this is fascinating for me. When I work with criminal psychopaths, that’s when we call it a disorder, because it literally is the functioning of their lives and other people. One of their biggest problems is they don’t stay away from the situations they should stay away from. They actively seek them out, and they’re just constantly at risk. So that, because they have that impulsive reactivity, they’re just putting themselves at risk all the time. It’s incredibly rare for any man to actually have the discipline to stay away from situations where the risk levels just I think actually, Jax was talking about that it’s just a pointlessly high risk, the gains versus the risk. It sounds worth it logically.

Teagan 26:58

Right, and I think that he had to go through some stuff to realize that for himself, that it’s just better to stay away than to put yourself at risk. I’m sure he got into how he was in jail maximum security when he was 17. So, I think that has a huge impact, seeing that when you’re that young, it’s like “Okay, I don’t want to be here. I don’t want to end up back here, because that is a loss of control.” So, if you can stabilize your need for control, I guess, in a moment or prevent it, should I say. If you can prevent it from happening, and keep the control at your home or wherever you’re safe, then you’ll never lose that by getting control by being impulsive to somebody somewhere else where something bad could happen. And, he realized that at a very young age.

Dan Munro 28:09

Now, this is very unusual, because the common thinking with psychopathy is they do not learn from mistakes. And, I think this comes from the downside, is, most studies of psychopathy have been in prisons, so they’re studying the people who are a certain type, and they’re not studying the ones who became surgeons or directors or whatever. And actually, never took the tests and never got found out, and they’re not seeing those ones. And I found that out of my interview with him, that was one of the bits that stood out to me the most like “You went to prison and learned from it and didn’t go back.” I’ve never seen that before in my life from a psychopath.

Teagan 28:51

Uh huh. So, what I think I mean, I don’t know for sure, but what I think that is, is the control. He doesn’t have any interest in joining a gang or that kind of stuff. That just seems to him, I don’t know, I’m trying to find the right word, pussy shit, I guess. But he knows that when he’s in jail, and maybe it was because he was so young he didn’t have control in there. There were people older than him who had spent more time in there. When you go in there, from what I understand, you have no control whatsoever, and I think that his desire for control trumps learning from your mistakes. If you go back to prison, you’re not going to have control and he has to have it. So, of course, he’s not going to do it again.

Dan Munro 30:09

Interesting. The control thing just keeps coming up, I guess.

Teagan 30:14

That’s the main thing that I noticed. There are other little things for sure, but…

Dan Munro 30:23

Well, I mean, it’s, it’s a topic change, but it’s occurred to me, I think one of the main questions that everyone has is around the concept of love, right? I can tell from the way you talk about him, that you’re in love with him, and I’m sure you have a very similar experience to love that most people would sort of recognize, perhaps. What’s your take on what he’s experiencing? We’ll start with you, then we’ll maybe talk about kids as well.

How a Psychopath Loves: Redefining Emotional Connection

Teagan 31:02

So, I mask also. I haven’t officially been diagnosed with anything, but I, my mental health isn’t, I’m not neurotypical by any means. So, and the closest thing that I’ve been able to find out without a diagnosis is BPD. And I don’t know if much about that, but people with BPD mask also, and the emotions are heightened, so it’s either being super, super happy and in relation to a relationship, or it’s the complete opposite like” I hate this person. I can’t stand them. Get away.” And, it’s never really in between. So, when you say, “I can tell that you love him”, I don’t even know for sure if that’s just myself, do what I’m saying? Am I masking? I don’t know it’s really confusing, but, I think he notices that in me, and I notice the masking in him, and that’s kind of why we clicked so well. Just because it’s so black and white. But if you had asked me, yes, I do love him. I wouldn’t be around if… but I don’t know if I experience love the same way that anybody else else would either. And that’s all just a mind fuck too.

Dan Munro 32:38

Well, this is actually, this is interesting, and this is where we can get into something more general than just talking about Jackson. Because with, as you revealed, with your own potential, undiagnosed something happening, and his fully diagnosed something happening, you’re forced to actually ask the question, what is love? What is it that I’m feeling? What’s real, what’s not? Question, I don’t think ,everyone asks, and maybe they should, because what I see when a lot of people say love, I see something else. I see control manipulation. I see people being very dishonest with people they supposedly love. I’m like “Well, if it’s not true, then what is it?” What are these feelings that you call love? It’s always, uh, I got this phrase, uh, talking about the color purple. I have no idea when I look at the color purple, if I’m seeing what other people are seeing? But who knows?

Teagan 33:47

I ask myself that all the time, right. If everybody’s everybody’s perception of it is different, and there’s no way to ever really know for sure if your perception matches with another person. You can explain it, but you’ll never feel it.

Dan Munro 34:04

Yeah, love’s a very interesting one when it comes to personality disorders and psychopathy, just because you’re forced to ask yourself, and me being whatever I am, my Mrs. calls me Dexter. So that’s her impression, alright. But, until my daughter was born, I wasn’t sure. And, as soon as she was born, on my “Oh, this isn’t for sure. Now I know, it was just washed away.” But even then, with my brothers, people, I’d say I love them, and then I just be like “But what do I mean?” One of the things I’m interested in this I’m sort of neurodivergent as well. I don’t know what the fuck I am, a big mix of shit, but one of my things is, out of sight, out of mind, so I don’t miss people.

Teagan 35:00

In the same way, right?

Dan Munro 35:04

Unless they’re in front of me. I sort of forget.

Teagan 35:08

With everything too, not just people. If there’s a task that I need to do, if it’s not right in front of me, it doesn’t exist.

Dan Munro 35:18

Is there something you two have in common, you think?

Teagan 35:22

I don’t know. Maybe not with his kids. But, even then, I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know if I’ve ever asked him that.

Dan Munro 35:34

Does he talk about people when they’re not around?

Teagan 35:42

He talks about his kids but anybody else, unless, we’re going to see someone, then, no, not really.

Dan Munro 35:53

That’s interesting. I think I sympathize. So, you have intense feelings for him. You know, I guess, at least on a rational level, that whatever love you’re capable of, you have for him. One way you can ask is, if he died, how you’d feel about that, right? If it’s been grief for a very long time, then yes, you probably love him. So your best guess, what do you think he feels for you?

Teagan 36:31

I think he feels companionship and it’s probably not how you or I or anybody else would feel towards people, but it still the intentions are there or the action is there. So, he would miss me if I was gone. And, he takes care of me. He makes sure I have everything that I need. Physically, emotionally, mentally, he takes care of all of that. And it’s…he doesn’t even really…I don’t know if he can explain it either, because it’s just so conceptual. But if you look at the actions, everything is there. So, if I’m perceiving it as love, or his intention is that he’s trying to show me love, is that love? I don’t know. It feels like it. It feels like it for me, and I know he’s doing it as much as he can for him. But, it’s a very confusing topic to get into, because it’s hard to ever say to know for sure.

Dan Munro 37:52

I find this really interesting. I’ve never actually put this much thought into it before, and because what I was thinking of there are people who say that they love someone, and yet they treat them very poorly. I mean, half of parents are covered by that. They say they love their kids, and yet, they’re very disrespectful towards their kids, harmful towards them, even neglectful. And so the kids don’t feel particularly loved, though, the person, the parent believes that they are. So, if Jackson’s behavior makes the person feel loved, and it is a genuine attempt on his part to anticipate taking care of them, their needs met, trying to make sure their life’s as good as possible for their own benefit. Well, you have to ask, who’s more loving, right? Even guide him that we would relate to in terms of feeling.

Teagan 38:46

I think people get caught up on “Is he only doing it for his self or to serve himself?”, maybe. But I’m also gaining from it as well. And it’s kind of like when you go do a good deed. If you help an old woman across the street, you’re doing it to help the old woman across the street, but it does make you feel good to do good deeds like that. And, maybe you’re not fully doing it to serve yourself, but that is part of it.

Dan Munro 39:21

Well, I personally am not a believer in altruism. I don’t think it’s possible to give selflessly. If you in any way enjoy the vision you have of yourself being the giver, then that’s a reward you got from it. And, I don’t think it has to be black and white. I think everyone can win. And, that’s what I like about psychopathy, is all of this is out on the table. It’s like, “Yes, I am myself, but you get something too.” So what’s the beef?

Teagan 39:53

Right? It’s just, brutally honest, where people, for some reason get weird about it like, “Oh no, I’m doing it to be selfless.” They think that you have to suffer in order for somebody else to gain something, but it can be a mutual thing.

Dan Munro 40:14

A lot of the guys I work with, nice guys, they believe love is shown through self sacrifice, so the other person gains and you hurt, and they think it doesn’t really count. But, I see that as cutting yourself for pleasure: it’s a type of masochism you actually want it, you identify with it. It’s a type of pleasure in itself? Whereas the psychopath goes, “Why would you hurt yourself? It’s pointless.”

Teagan 40:41

Yeah, you don’t need to do that.

Dan Munro 40: 43

Very interesting. I’m gonna have to put more thought into this. Well, what’s your impression? We’re seeing this again, according to the literature, a psychopath should not give a shit about their kids any more than they do about a car on the street or a hamburger or anything like that. What’s your take on him as a father?

Raising Kids with a Psychopath: A Different Kind of Fatherhood

Teagan 41:08

He is a great father, one of the best dads that I’ve ever seen. He’s so attentive and concerned and any little thing that they’ll need, he’ll drop anything and everything to go and do it, no matter how far away they are. As far as the literature saying that, I think that they become extensions of himself, and I’m sure you’ve heard him say this too, but they, they’re almost the carriers of him. So, he lives through them, and they live through him. So it’s almost like he is trying to mold them, almost as if they’re his, what is the word, his childhood self. So, we were actually just talking about this last night, he sometimes questions , “Am I just… Do I love them?” I don’t know, because it’s hard to tell. But again, the attention is there that he wants to do anything and everything he can to make sure that they’re the best versions of themselves: that they can be… that they never go in need for anything like that. But, I think a lot of it has to do with his inner child and healing through them.

Dan Munro 42:42

Well, again, it comes down to the idea, if the behavior is loving, then does the feeling actually need to be there for it to count?

Teagan 42:51

And also, I know he would easily give his life away, not just for his children, but any child like he would throw it all away, which I think that’s interesting too, because his intention for that would be to die a hero. He wants people to view him as a hero, which is, okay, you can look at it either way. He’s dying a hero. That’s a good thing. That’s a good thing to want. But are you only wanting to do that so people view you like that. Does it matter?

Dan Munro 43:30

That’s interesting. The literature will say one of the things that psychopaths, at least high functioning ones, self-preservation is one of their concerns. So, they’ll destroy everything else if they need to to protect themselves. It actually, even to give up his life for the image of being a hero, does not align with the literature idea. So again, this is just, it’s very fascinating. I think why I was so interested in talking to him, and he’s not the first psychopath I’ve studied in this character. The literature is just, it’s not up to standard. It hasn’t covered the ones that aren’t in the system, that aren’t keeping by the basement and so on. It’s not getting a full picture.

Teagan 44:23

I think a huge, huge part of that is the nature verse, nurture thing. I know you guys got into this too, but, maybe it’s silly to compare shows, but Dexter, I’m sure you’ve watched it since it’s your nickname, but you how he has Harry’s code, so he it’s funny, because he’s never actually seen Dexter before. We just started watching it a couple of weeks or so ago and we’re watching that, and he’s talking about Harry’s code, and I looked over at him, and I’m like “Huh, it sounds like your mom, like your mom is guiding you.” Because his mom, I’m pretty sure, knew that Jackson was different and how he might be different, so she would take extreme lengths to make sure that he was doing right by her moral code. And, one of the main things about her moral code was women and children: you don’t hit women, you don’t hit children and that was literally beaten into him. So the way that Dexter, for example, takes Harry’s code and is like, “Oh, I’m not a serial killer. I just kill people who kill people, because that’s wrong.” It’s the same thing. “Oh, I wouldn’t do this to this person because they’re a child or they’re a woman”. And, I think that it’s just so drilled into his brain that he can’t think in a different way.

Dan Munro 46:12

That’s fascinating, because, when I was talking to him, what blew me away was just how blasé he was about his childhood. He glossed over this couple of comments.

Teagan 46:23

He doesn’t really talk about it much, but it doesn’t bother him, which I thought was interesting, too.

Dan Munro 46:30

Well, and this is something I’ve seen a lot of psychopaths do. You ask them about childhood, and they are like “Oh, it’s a normal childhood”, so on. And then you go a bit more into details and, you are like, “Sure it was normal dude.”

Teagan 46:45

It was not normal,

Dan Munro 46:46

It was extreme! This sounds like a very sort of bipolar, at least personality type, mother. And then, he mentioned at one point knives came out and stuff like that.

Teagan 46:54

It’s not normal at all.

Dan Munro 46:57

If you weren’t a psychopath, that would traumatize the hell out of you. But for him, to come away from that with a code of some kind…

Teagan 47:09

He talks about that a lot too, his mom was… he speaks so highly of his mom, which I would too, because the potential for him to end up in prison for the rest of his life, I see it there. It’s very obvious, glaringly obvious. But, had he not had the nurturing that he did have, he would be there. For sure, 100% sure he would be there, but I think her guiding him and enforcing no

matter what, these set of rules that she had for him, he took that and that’s just who he is now.

Dan Munro 47:59

So far, it seems to be working. What kicked off my own journey was actually just stumbling across a YouTube video. There was an interview with a sort of, call it, an everyday psychopath. So, he wasn’t in jail or anything. Can’t remember why they were interviewing him. But, what stood out is he had a wife and kids. I was like, “And she knows? What the fuck! I’ve never seen that!” It’s a revelation to any partner in their life…to have a guy who’s… just everything was out in the open with the whole family, kids included. I have never seen that before. I didn’t know you could do that, and just for things to be working. So, I want to hear more about the resolution, so he shows you whatever it was, the Hare scale, antisocial personality disorder diagnosis. I’ve even seen that he put on brain scans. Those are quite significant scans. I mean, I only got a glance at them, but they line up with everything else. He told me, there’s very low functioning and certain lobes happening there. How do you guys process that, together, after he told you and you get that jarring shock?

Teagan 49:33

Well, I wouldn’t say it’s such a jarring shock, because there had been months where we were talking about it, and I think he knew, he knew, and I kind of knew just based off of the way he is. If you go and read the psychopathy traits, it’s like, “Okay. That, that, that, that.” But, he didn’t want to admit it for a long time because the lack of empathy, he didn’t want to believe that he couldn’t love his kids. But it was kind of like an underlying “Okay, you, you’re definitely on the ASPD scale”, probably further up on it too, and I guess that he was, but it wasn’t until I saw his test results that I was like, “Oh, this is actually real. Does he feel?”, and it was just really confusing for me, because I was asking that I don’t know, is it all fake? And after we, really delved into it, we were watching interviews and YouTube videos on just people talking about psychopaths. And there was a few people that he found, I can’t remember who they were, but they were talking about how they still have feelings, and they arguably have a better understanding of feelings than normal people do, just because they have to be able to manipulate with those feelings. And also, him learning that the extension of yourself is a potential thing, that helped us a lot too, because it’s, okay, you still love. It’s not, completely blank, it’s just different. And realizing that he shows his love in a different way. It’s like okay, you can come to a resolution with yourself and and just recognize that it’s different, but not that it’s anything less. It’s just different.

Dan Munro 51:58

I suppose that’s something you had to come to. Figure out he’s got his own version of this going for you.

Teagan 52:07

Definitely. And, it really didn’t take that long to come to that realization either.

Dan Munro 52:16

But as you say, it’s not like something changed.

Teagan 52:19

No, nothing changed. All that there was, was this new word, this new label.

Dan Munro 52:27

I’m just because I’ve always been very honest with my wife, and so we’ve had to have these conversations where I tell her, sort of what I feel compared to what she and so she’s very emotional. Everything’s very intense for her, her highs are high, and her lows are low, and I’m like this little, tiny vibration in the middle. But I think, like yourself, she sort of realized, well, it’s how I treat her that matters, and I treat like she’s the most important person in my life. And she’s been with guys who probably feel things deeper than I do, but they didn’t treat her like that.

Teagan 53:12

Exactly, that’s something that I’ve definitely noticed for sure, is the ones who you can tell that that’s really passionate, or whatever, they’re never gonna be as logical with it as somebody like him would.

Dan Munro 53:35

Well, a lot of what I do is giving guidance, particularly to men, and particularly in relationships. It’s not the only work I do, but it’s a large chunk of it, and I’m really interested to hear from you. What can guys take from him? What is he doing that you wish.. if you look back over previous relationships with guys, obviously you’re not with them anymore for obvious reasons… What could people learn from the way he is as a partner to be better boyfriends and husbands and so on?

Teagan 54:19

I think one of the main things is, uh, standing on your decisions or being able to make the right decision and know that that’s the right decision. Because, I don’t know, maybe this is old fashioned, but I think that the person who’s protecting the family should be the leader of the family and their views, I guess they have different knowledge that the women would have. So letting somebody who’s on the more emotional side make the decisions is, I don’t know, I just see it leading to a downfall, and it has in my past relationships, too. Not saying that I can’t make the right decisions, but it is very, uh, it is a turn off when I see somebody who just lets me take the lead. I don’t want to take the lead, you are supposed to take the lead. Maybe it’s super traditional, but I don’t think that should be my responsibility. You’re supposed to do that. And again, maybe that’s super traditional, but I don’t think that I should be… that it should be my responsibility.

Dan Munro 55:34

So, sort of decisive, backing himself…

Teagan 55:38

Yeah, and standing on it.

Dan Munro 55:41

Let’s pull that apart a little bit more, because this is the thing that I know guys don’t quite get. What do you mean by “standing on it”?

Teagan 55:51

Knowing that whatever decision you make, as long as you can back it up with reason and it’s logical, you cannot, no matter what somebody else says about your decision you have to follow through with your decision, because if you don’t, then you look like a pushover and I’m going to walk all over you. It sounds bad, but that’s just realistic, what it is, and it’s not just me. I think. I don’t want to generalize, but from what I’ve seen, women in relationships with guys who are pushovers, they’re not happy, and the guy isn’t happy, and the woman isn’t in her feminine and the man isn’t in his masculine, and it’s just butting heads, and they hate each other, and when it’s flipped around like that, everybody feels content with themselves, and it’s just a happier relationship.

Dan Munro 56:56

I totally agree, and I wouldn’t say, you say. It might seem traditional when it’s a girl saying it and the guy’s the masculine. But, the point is, is that somebody’s masculine and somebody’s feminine.

Teagan 57:12

Yeah, right, right.

Dan Munro 57:15

And, that’s why I think anybody objecting to what you’re saying has got to get in their heads. This isn’t like trad roles or anything…they’re a feminine girl, then the guy has to be a masculine guy, or it’s not going to work, and vice versa. One of my clients is a man, but he’s clearly the feminine role in the relationship.

Teagan 57:36

And everybody’s relationship, it’s so different. So, it’s hard to put input in. But, there are things that are similar throughout that you can apply.

Dan Munro 57:49

And this is, this is what I’m hoping people are hearing here is that before I sort of said how healthy is, and you said, 99% that’s way higher than most people. Right? 1%, a couple of times that were dark or the controlling is a bit too much. Most relationships I deal with are under 50. They got serious concerns. Obviously, I’m going to be dealing with more broken ones, but I just walk around the street and I just see way less than 99%, you know what I mean? It’s making me think about this idea of love, if love is indeed a feeling, then it’s not permanent. No feelings are permanent. So, even if you’re deeply in love with someone, there’ll be moments of the day where you’ve forgotten all about them. So, is love more about behavior, or is it about feeling. Someone’s consistently loving in their behavior? Is that what we mean? Because I’ve had people feel love towards me, but treat me like shit, and I do believe it helps, the emotion of whatever it is, butterflies and heat and heart beating. But I’d rather be treated by someone dead cold, who’s respectful. So, it’s just fascinating. I don’t know where to go with that information. I just find it really interesting.

Teagan 59:16

Yeah.

Living with a Highly Desirable Partner

Dan Munro 59:19

There’s definitely one thing I had to ask you about, because when Jax and I collaborated, some of his audience sort of came over to check out my stuff and all that, which I really appreciate. I could not help but notice that he has a huge, thirsty female following. Very frightening, actually.

Teagan 59:42

I know.

Dan Munro 59:43

And, I had to straight away think, what is it like to be you with that? Knowing that that’s coming at him all the time.

Teagan 59:54

Well, to be honest, I do struggle with it. It’s something that comes up here and there. He never leaves the house, so, and if he does leave, I’m with him. So it’s like in his mind, he’s like “You have no reason to worry, because I’m here all the time.” But then seeing that is, I’m not gonna lie. It’s like “Whoa.” It’s a lot, but I just have to remind myself often that the more thirsty comments there are, the sooner we can go on a vacation. So it’s a love and hate relationship with that, but that’s something that I think I just need to work on myself. He does everything he can to reassure me with that, but he’s talked to me about this a lot too. If I work on my security or insecurity with myself, then the issue of all these girls being options for him is never going to bother me, because I know what I have to offer is what I have to offer. It’s better than what they have, because he’s with me and he’s still with me. So, that’s just stuff that I have to remind myself, but thoughts creep in here and there. So it’s like a learning curve, I guess.

Dan Munro 1:01:37

Yeah, I’d be massively surprised if you were unaffected. I haven’t seen anything like that for someone who’s not a celebrity. You know what I mean? It shows why horror movies and stuff are so popular. There’s a certain type of guy that obviously triggers certain reactions, and, I had a look, and I was like some of them… I’m like “Wow, that was frightening.”

Teagan 1:02:04

I know some of them are very graphic.

Dan Munro 1:02:09

And just how these people function well enough to use a forum, there’s some image people.

Teagan 1:02:15

Another thing about that too, that I always laughed to myself about that. He’s not like that. That’s a persona. He is, I don’t know if I can say this. I’m just gonna say it anyway, but he’s very vanilla. He isn’t into all of that aggression and BDSM stuff, that’s not his thing at all. So, seeing comments like that, I always have to laugh. It’s like you are so far off that, that will never work.

Dan Munro 1:02:51

That’s funny. That’s actually probably a good sign. Generally, the more disordered ones are more depraved in the bedroom, and so, again, it’s probably a sign of being high functioning. But, I did feel for you there, because for me, I imagine, if my wife was a celebrity actress or whatever… this is what I would have to deal with. I consider myself to be a fairly confident person, but if I was seeing that coming from my wife every day, I would react, it would be something.

Teagan 1:03:29

That’s why I said I try not to look too much. Because, on the other hand, too, he can’t not do that. That’s working for him, very, very well. So it feels selfish on my part to be like “Stop posting thirst trap videos.” He’s gonna…he has to do that and, and that’s almost me taking for granted that I am reaping from those benefits as well.

Dan Munro 1:04:03

Right. These girls are paying for the next trip. That’s real interesting. Well, one of the things I’m always fascinated about, just generally, psychology, especially psychology of attraction. Well, my training tells me that one of the things that kills relationships a lot, especially the spark, is that the woman realizes her man is not attractive to others. And this is sort of, it’s generalized evolutionary psych, over generalized and oversimplified.

Teagan 1:04:40

I’ve never really thought too deeply into that, but that’s what I see that for sure.

Dan Munro 1:04:46

Well, there was a comedian talking about it. He was using the metaphor of fishing, and he was saying “You’ve got to smell fish on me to know that I could still fish, or otherwise not going to want to stay in the boat”, kind of thing. Which is pretty crude version of it, but I do notice this and classic dad meme type persona, where a person goes from whatever was attractive in the first place to this more neutral, bland thing that, and I work with these guys after they get divorced and stuff, and they really struggle with dating and all that, because they’ve had the masculinity hammered out of them, and, they’ve become this moderate thing. So, I do wonder, knowing that here’s that desire helps in some way. I’m wondering, because the reason I ask is there’s a lot of guys I know that once they get into a relationship, one of the first kind of compromises they make is a subtle thing where they try to be less attractive to others so that the girlfriend doesn’t get jealous or doesn’t get upset. And, it’s actually a test that they fail. They should just be like “Look, if girls like me, that’s the way it is. That’s your thing. I’m going to be loyal. Your insecurities, your things you need to deal with.” So, they end up dimming themselves down to try and prevent jealousy and stuff.

Teagan 1:06:15

I didn’t realize that was a thing.

Dan Munro 1:06:19

Oh, it’s a big thing.

Teagan 1:06:19

I’ve never noticed that before.

Dan Munro 1:06:20

You see any man wearing a fanny pack, what happened? It’s at some point… he didn’t dress like that when he was single. You know what I mean? It was just this thing that I saw happen. There’s even theories about guys like subconsciously putting on weight and things. We’re getting into fringe psychology that isn’t massively backed up by science. But, the first thing I thought is, if you’re always going to have this awareness of how desirable he is. I wonder if that helps to some extent.

Teagan 1:06:59

Well, it makes me act right. I’m being blunt. Knowing that he has this huge pool of options. I am on my toes all the time, trying to make sure that I can do everything that I can do. And sometimes I miss the point here and there, but for the most part, I do have a very good understanding that I can be replaceable. And that I mean, yes, I guess that does make me desire him more.

Dan Munro 1:07:44

Well, look, this is, this is no small thing, and we’re getting into sort of very edgy psychology stuff that makes people very uncomfortable, that I want to talk about. You can have things to say about someone like you actually saying something like “That makes me act right?” But, I see the other side. I see when people don’t have this happening, where they don’t realize that they would lose their partner every day, they’re not reminded of that every day.

Teagan 1:08:12

Right, right.

Dan Munro 1:08:14

But people who are with a highly desirable partner, or they have a partner who’s sort of sick and could die any moment, they’re the only ones that seem to have the real constant gratitude refresh. As you say, it makes you act like you actually love the person and you want this thing to work. And you went for in the work. Very interesting. I’m not going anywhere with this. I just find it interesting.

Teagan 1:08:40

Oh, no, it’s very interesting.

Dan Munro 1:08:45

Well, how do you go? I mean, I don’t want to pry too much,

Teagan 1:08:56

Go ahead.

Dan Munro 1:08:57

And when we’re done, I’ll send this to you. You’ll decide what we keep and what we edit out, and so on about together. So, what kind of future do you see for you, guys?

Teagan 1:09:08

I don’t think about it too often. Not that I don’t think about it, but it’s like that “If it’s not in the room with me, it’s not there.” But I do like, we talk about like down the line, getting married, possibly him having another kid, is nothing set in stone, which I’m okay with, because I don’t feel like I have everything in myself set up to do that, to move on to the next step yet, and I think he kind of feels the same way. So, I guess we’ll see, but I don’t see it ending anytime soon.

Dan Munro 1:09:59

Yeah, no. I mean, I have to assess people’s relationships health all the time and while you guys will always have struggles, there’s nothing I see that gives me any red flags. I would say it if it was.

Teagan 1:10:10

Really?

Dan Munro 1:10:21

I find you guys so interesting. I think it’s summed up by you saying that sort of 99%. That number needs to be way lower before you’re actually at risk 80% awesome.I think what’s standing out to me, I guess, the conclusion that’s forming, is that you guys have a match, and that’s the important bit.

Teagan 1:10:48

Yeah, and I think mutual understanding, too. I think that’s a big part of it too.

Dan Munro 1:10:55

It’s like yin and yang, like you guys have the counterbalance needed for this to work.

Teagan 1:11:00

Yeah, it has to be very, very specific, yes.

Dan Munro 1:11:04

And as you say, if maybe you are BPD or whatever, if nothing else, it gives you an understanding of not having a typical psychological makeup. Just to kind of, it’s a it’s an empathy, isn’t it?

Teagan 1:11:20

Yeah.

Dan Munro 1:11:22

Just what it’s like to be not normal. And, if this encourages you at all: that’s what you have, actually, over all the pursuers in his comment section, you have such a unique psychological makeup that fits him, that’s actually incredibly rare.

Teagan 1:11:55

I wouldn’t say either that it’s that unique. It didn’t take anything to get here. There were definitely thought patterns that I had before I met him, that I learned to shift into him. And I think that part of the BPD is, for lack of a better word, people pleasing. I will mold myself into whoever my partner needs to be. And that’s part of the love thing too. “Do I really love somebody? If I’m doing this?” I don’t know. It’s a weird thing. He calls it chameleon, chameleoning, or whatever, and that actually irritates him sometimes. But, I think that is part of the reason why we’re able to last because I can mold myself so well into him and see where I need to bold myself. Sometimes it’s easier than other times, but I always try to find a way to do it.

Dan Munro 1:13:10

I’m not going to get into you guys’ relationship and have an intervention or anything, but chameleon effect is actually a term that we use in the sort of people pleasing syndrome umbrella. But, it always requires deception and dishonesty for it to count. So, adaptation and being a chameleon are not the same thing. If you feel it’s genuine and you guys are having honest conversations about the way you adapt to them, that’s not the same. As with being a chameleon is where I pretend to be what you want me to be, and I manipulate you into thinking it’s real, which I’m sure you cross over that line sometimes.

Teagan 1:13:54

Yeah.

Dan Munro 1:13:57

If I had to label, basically, two things that I believe signify the health of the potential future health of a relationship: the first one is the two of you improving each other; and, the second one is honesty. Those two factors can carry a relationship with not needing anything else.

Teagan 1:14:30

Oh, that’s interesting.

Dan Munro 1:14:30

That’s just my own personal opinion, but basically, I’ve never seen a relationship with those two that didn’t survive. And then, of course, every relationship I’ve seen as a disaster was usually missing both. One person’s going north, the other is going south. Or, one person diminishes themselves to be with the other person, becomes a worse person, or whatever. But it would be interesting, because he might never admit it, or whatever. But, I do wonder what effect you’ve had on him.

Teagan 1:15:04

He has told me before. Uh, one of the main things that I’ve helped him with is patience. He still gets frustrated, for sure, and when he does get frustrated it’s 00 to a 100 . But, from what I understand, in all of his past relationships, he’s never after he sees one thing that’s like “Oh, I don’t that.” They’re done. It’s over in maybe a few weeks, a few months. But with me, for whatever reason, I don’t know if it’s just a change in his life, in his thinking, I’m not sure. But his patience with me is just so much greater than it was in the past, from what I understand.

Dan Munro 1:16:01

Well, I’d be surprised if you had no effect. I think even if you look at it purely like selfish, he’s keeping you around for a reason, sort of thing.

Teagan 1:16:11

Sometimes I have to look at it because I forget.

Dan Munro 1:16:17

But, I don’t know. Even the fact that he was bothered by the idea that he might not love his kids exactly the way he thought he did, that wouldn’t bother him unless there was something going on. If you take, character like Dexter or whatever, it wouldn’t bother him to find that out, like “Of course, I don’t.”, but it clearly does. He was hoping that something was there, and that hope is actually something, so that’s fascinating. I just find the whole thing very interesting. And, it seems to work. I don’t know, are you guys surprised?

Teagan 1:17:09

It’s just different. I think a lot of people don’t understand that it’s just a different type of relationship, and it works for us.

Dan Munro 1:17:20

Cool. Well, I mean, this was…I’ve got so much to think about.

Teagan 1:17:33

Let me know if you have a quick question.

Dan Munro 1:17:34

Yeah, I definitely will. Any final thoughts or ideas you want to share before we wrap it up?

Teagan 1:17:37

None off the top of my head right now.

Dan Munro 1:17:43

So good. Well, who knows, I may have more questions for you from people about everything they’d want to know, but for whatever mental health stuff you’re dealing with, I think you strike me as someone who’s actually quite healthy, probably more than you give yourself credit for even. And particularly, given where you said you’ve come from, it’s obviously been massive progress.

Teagan 1:18:21

Yeah, for sure.

Dan Munro 1:18:22

And for me, you seriously shake up the the myth or judgments that people might have that your relationship is unhealthy, that you must be some sort of fucked up person to be with him, that he’s not really all of a loving relationship. I think it’s just not true.

Teagan 1:18:40

No, it’s as I said, again, it’s just different. And, I think people have a hard time wrapping their head around it, because I think a big part of it is that psychopath in the media basically means demon, and that’s just so far from the truth. That’s not how it is. It’s it’s just a different way of thinking,

Dan Munro 1:19:04

Well, like you say, ADHD, Autism they used to be demonized, and now we’re seeing it’s not quite that clear cut, you know?

Teagan 1:19:12

Right? Not at all.

Dan Munro 1:19:16

Cool. Thank you so much for sharing and being open.

Teagan 1:19:20

Thanks for having me on.

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Dan Munro

💬 What Clients Say About Dan Munro Coaching

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ James K., CFO

“I actually believe women can be attracted to me now and I no longer see women as on a pedestal. I had created excuses in many areas of my life to keep me from changing to the person that is more successful. I am a happier person now. I actually feel confident that I will be able to achieve my most important goals whereas before I was almost resigned to never being in a relationship and had accepted that maybe it’s just not for me.”

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